wizards vs reynolds pistons ?
- Thread starter D.Ally
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catfish123
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I think I'll post over on Jay Smith's 2.5 board on BBC that Wizard pistons aren't impressive...............I'll let you all know what his response is based on his opinion, and of course his building of several high performance motors each week. 
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE WRONG ABOUT THIS!!!
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE WRONG ABOUT THIS!!!
suicidealli
Well-Known Member
It seems some of the wizard issues stays hush hush. I have seen ring issues, wear on the pins, and one piston actually the ring lance "groove" was collapsing. The ring would not fit in the groove. Dean has made changes to the wizards over the years. I know mercury is very proud their pistons, and then add the price to machine them down to a good weight!!!! I have seen plenty of merc side pin failures, and circle clip failures too.
Marles piston don't empress me at all. It is a cheap fix, but not the way to go for HP. There is to much leakage around the pin. Every set I have pulled out you can see the color on the piston where the air is leaking around pin area. Not just a liitle either a lot.
For a lake motor, and you can't afford new pistons, It will get you bye I guess. Safer than a side pin. I couldn't imagine any 260/280/drag side pin pistons out there being any good anyway. Lmao. Some of the tolerances guys use for high rpm motors is crazy. 3.494 is the smallest piston I will use in a high rpm motor. No way are you going to put a 100 hours on a stock piston, and measure 3.494. I have also noticed the lighter the piston, the less wear I have seen, if cut correctly. Now if I have a perfectly round piston with a couple extra thous wear I will build motors to fit these pistons, but that is a different topic....
Sure would be nice to have another piston choice.....
I agree the old Mahle pistons were a good side pin piston.
Roy
Marles piston don't empress me at all. It is a cheap fix, but not the way to go for HP. There is to much leakage around the pin. Every set I have pulled out you can see the color on the piston where the air is leaking around pin area. Not just a liitle either a lot.
For a lake motor, and you can't afford new pistons, It will get you bye I guess. Safer than a side pin. I couldn't imagine any 260/280/drag side pin pistons out there being any good anyway. Lmao. Some of the tolerances guys use for high rpm motors is crazy. 3.494 is the smallest piston I will use in a high rpm motor. No way are you going to put a 100 hours on a stock piston, and measure 3.494. I have also noticed the lighter the piston, the less wear I have seen, if cut correctly. Now if I have a perfectly round piston with a couple extra thous wear I will build motors to fit these pistons, but that is a different topic....
Sure would be nice to have another piston choice.....
I agree the old Mahle pistons were a good side pin piston.
Roy
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Dave Hensley
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h2oskiier30
Well-Known Member
If anyone knows, how about some info on the rings Glenn uses in his pistons. From the pics, it looks like they use the 2mm rings rather than 1.5's. Also, it states that the rings are chrome faced with a ferrox coating. Anyone care to explain this? It's my understading that chrome rings in a nic bore wear out in half the time. Is the ferrox coating similar to TiN or something?
TBuck2003
Moderator
I can only speak from personal experience, and I am not an engine builder who builds multiple motors per year. As a back yard guy I have been running Wizards in my 260 for 5 years. This season will be number 6 on that motor. The 260 on my GSE wll see 8-9k speed duty , then see 35 mph and under for towing wake board/ tubes etc... I am probably in the 150 hr. plus on this motor and that could be a light guesstimate. Absolutely not 1 problem so far ( Knocking on wood) There is no question anything can fail in what we do, it is the nature of the beast. If we no longer want to complain about failures get yourself a 3 liter xs turn it 5800- 6k and watch the gas tank NOT move...Lol
suicidealli
Well-Known Member
Todd remember the 280 cut promax u stuck a piston in at Clifton? John bought that motor. One of the other pistons in that motor was the one with ring lance was closing on.
BUT I hear ya, they all can fail. I still use wizards too.
Roy
there are alot of really fast drag boats that run side pin pistons.i have won alot of races with mercs and wizards.i have been happy with both.i have pulled my unlimited motor down after 30 to 40 passes and both types are still in good shape.i mainly run merc pistons because the rings seem to last a little longer and i have come to realize that merc engineers are perty smart
TBuck2003
Moderator
Roy that was the motor that came off the 2002 we bought. It had a 225 pro max block with 260 front half. Ran it one time and boom. I had nothing to do with that assembly...
K.Kiser
Well-Known Member
I'm guilty as charged with complaining about mercs, and changing things on the danged motors but there's no doubt that the Engineers could put us all on the trailer at will... How much of their knowledge and best ideas are converted a bit due to the need of profit margin I don't know, but they are far from naive...
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The merc rings are the best, and mercs pistons are decent.
I am not a believer in removing weight from the skirts of pistons. I do believe in cutting them for hp reasons, and weight matching them but never remove much metal to make them lighter. I am all for light rotating assembly's, but never at the expense of the integrity of the piston skirts. Collapse is our biggest problem, light pistons collapse at a shocking rate. Collapsed pistons rock, don't seal and beat the hell out of your bores. Nobody has touched on why there are performance issues with the others, they are significant. More in how quickly the motor makes power than its peak.
I am not a believer in removing weight from the skirts of pistons. I do believe in cutting them for hp reasons, and weight matching them but never remove much metal to make them lighter. I am all for light rotating assembly's, but never at the expense of the integrity of the piston skirts. Collapse is our biggest problem, light pistons collapse at a shocking rate. Collapsed pistons rock, don't seal and beat the hell out of your bores. Nobody has touched on why there are performance issues with the others, they are significant. More in how quickly the motor makes power than its peak.
I tore a motor up before jasper 2 years ago and patched a motor together and won unlimited with 3 merc and 3 wizards so I guess I'm loyal to both and that motor ran so good I ran it all last year and on the last race the gear case gave out and destroyed the motor
suicidealli
Well-Known Member
I didn't mean it had anything to do with the assembly, or you!!!! Just saying it had another failed wizard in it.
Roy
TBuck2003
Moderator
No offense Taken Roy I did not take it like that. But ya never know what is inside somebody's power plant. I know you have seen many surprises !!!!! Have a good one
h2oskiier30
Well-Known Member
I will keep that quiet
Myron
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has anyone used Vertex pistons in a 280 for lake use? I had a long conversation with Dave Bush about this some weeks ago, he feels it is more of a heat problem than anything, he says he uses side pin pistons. It just makes you wonder why it seems other pistons don't have the problem we have, I have never herd of a 3 liter having this problem, I also know of old 2.4's that run for ever and never have any problems .Any more ideas would help, also has anyone used Glenns pistons?
Dave Hensley
Well-Known Member
Heat + RPM. Have you ever seen a manufacturer recommend 11,000 rpm?