Best EFI fuel pump? And where to get it?

2fast4mom

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Bosch?

Glenn Reynolds?

Guys, I put this entire fuel system back together by the book, new fuel tank, everything new-new except the pump.

Now, even with a siphon feed (will post pic of the new setup in a few minutes) the system STILL sounds like crispy critters when it's pumping (motor off) AND you can see a 1-2 lb fluctuation in the inline fuel pressure gauge.

Sometimes it is quiet, sometimes it sounds like popcorn, what do you think? What's left besides the @#$% pump??

I think the guy burnt the pump up by having it mounted ABOVE the water separator!!!! What do you think?

Here's the new system. If you look closely you can see the feed hose for the pump sweeping around. The bottom of the pump is at the same level as the bottom of the fuel tank!

 

GFinch

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I see your pump is still ----- the fuel level. You could check your fuel pump amperage draw with a low amp probe and then check the wave form on a graphing multi meter like a SnapOn Vantage or a scope.
But what do I know!
 

2fast4mom

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Once the separator fills, it can be considered just like a piece of fuel hose. If you think of it that way, there is a complete siphon effect from the top of the stand pipe to the bottom of the fuel pump.

Referring to the Diamond Marine article that Y/A linked to the other thread, the capital rule is "DO NOT STARVE THE SUCTION SIDE OF THE PUMP".

It is CERTAINLY not starved now, but it WAS in the prior orientation (above the separator).
 

CHRIS IND

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GS

I'm not sure I understand your problem but I noticed something on my Grandsport that sounds similar.

The return line from the engine (on an EFI motor) is plumbed in to the tank beside the fuel pickup. When the fuel is returned to the tank, the stream from the incoming fuel return splashes directly over the pickup strainer inside the tank. It creates air bubbles in the fuel that are picked up by the fuel pump. Makes the pump sound like it's frying bacon.

Good....bad.....? It never caused a problem on my GS.

Chris
 

Yellowallison

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LuLU get ya a new bosch pump from GLENN Reynolds and be done with it!

300$ bucks aint worth a powerhead! :p :p

Also..... make sure yu flush a gallon of gas thru that (NEW) system to flush it clean before yu hook it up to yur motor !!

:p :p :p :p
 
J

John Richied

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Before you buy a new fuel pump I would take another fuel pump off something else and switch it out, see if the surge in fuel pressure and sound goes away?


If that fixes the problem sell that fuel pump on E-bay(j/k)… LOL :p :p :p
 

CHRIS IND

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Brucato

Brucato has the Bosch 984 (drag) pump for less than $200 NIB.

YA is right, it's cheaper than a powerhead


Chris
 

2fast4mom

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Here is the full story of what happened to get to this point.

I had just dropped on a freshly built P/H in March and was out breaking her in. Everything was fine for about 30 minutes when the motor lost power and stalled. I restarted her and it did this chugging thing like it was running on 3 cyl and hardly would pull a dead hen off a nest...then it recovered and was fine again. I went back & forth up the cove a few more times. All was well, so out I went into the main body of the lake.

So sure enough, it knew that I'd gone out of the cove and started to act goofy again. Some sputtering and recovering, loss of power then picking up again and the first thing I thought was A) This is either fuel or electrical, and B) It keeps recovering so I'll bet it's fuel starvation.

Then I thought back to the two previous P/H's that had blown, one at the 2005 WAR and one by the previous owner. So I thought, I'm not going for number 3 and let's figure out what's up with this jinxed rig.

So I turned around and limped back towards the ramp, sputtering and surging most of the way, occasionally picking up bursts of OK running.

While I idled in, I noticed the "frying bacon" (PERFECT description, Chris) sound that the fuel pump was making, and noticed a bit of fluctuation on the inline pressure gauge. So I think, here's a smoking gun, neither of my other two boats make this noise and is it just coincidence that I am having these problems that come and go and the pump is doing this sizzling thing?

This was with the old tank and the old pump location (above the W/S filter, forcing it to suck, no gravity feed).

Chris, your explanation and observation that the fuel return is creating air bubbles in the pickup is perfectly plausible except in my case for two reasons: 1) The pickup in the old tank was in the center, and the return was over in the corner, and 2) The tank was nearly full of fuel.

So I go on a mission to find out why there might be air getting into the fuel line, and remove the tank and the pickup tube. Aha, I think, the 11-year-old tank has a hardened clear vinyl hose on the pickup barb at the top, inside the tank, at the top, where air could leak into the line.

I replace the entire tank with a new one from Allison, re-plumb / relocate the filter and pump and lines as per advice here and from the Diamond Marine article (although some have suggested trashing the W/S filter, and maybe I should, but left it for now) and there should be a good siphon feed to the bottom of the pump.

Put in 10 gallons of fuel last night, all fresh (5 gals race & 5 gals 91), new filters both W/S and inline (oh yeah, I removed the W/S flange and re-sealed all the fittings with purple locktite), ran the pump.....

At first it groaned and would not show more than 20 psi on the gauge. After some starts and stops of the key (never starting the motor, just key ON) it picked up to 40 psi and then started doing the frying bacon noise again!

I let the pump run for awhile, thinking maybe it was just residual air in the system. Sure enough, the noise went away. Then it came back. Then it went away. Then it came back. All by itself, without any manipulation or intervention.

I wouldn't be so concerned about this frying sound were it not for the fact that none of the other boats with similar pumps have ever made this sound, and I can see the fluctuation (ever so slight, 1 to 2 psi) on the inline pressure gauge. Unfortunately, as the gauge is in the fuel tank compartment, I could not see it that time I was out running the boat.

This morning I ordered a new Bosch pump from Glenn, for overnight delivery. Worst case scenario, I'll have an extra pump on hand or for Ebay. :lol:

What's left? Could it be the regulator, up on the motor? I've never heard of one of those going bad... :?:

Thanks to all you guys who have responded and thanks for enduring this long read.

My luck, I'll get this fixed and find out the problem was in the motor electrical all along. :roll:
 

Yellowallison

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although some have suggested trashing the W/S filter, and maybe I should, but left it for now)
LULU i was suggest that! Nver run one myself cause of it being a restriction in volume of fuel to the motor!


Also.... I' suggest yu move that FUEL pressure gauge to jus in front of the injector rail so you can see it while sittin the seat!! back the boat down at the ramp and do a few hard punches with the cowling off - eyeballin the gauge to make sure it doesn't drop more than 3-5 lbs when yu punch it hard ... that ensure yur getting the fuel pressue yu need!


GOOD LUCK with the new pump!! Let us KNOW! !
 

2fast4mom

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back the boat down at the ramp and do a few hard punches with the cowling off - eyeballin the gauge to make sure it doesn't drop more than 3-5 lbs when yu punch it hard ... that ensure yur getting the fuel pressue yu need!
So the gauge can "burp" down to 35 psi when I hit it hard and that's OK?

Thanks for the tip, I'll try it and let ya know!!!
 

Yellowallison

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So the gauge can "burp" down to 35 psi when I hit it hard and that's OK?

YEA LU!! all gauges act different in how much.... but it yu romp it and it drops blew 30/35 for more than a nano secound yu need to draw caution to the wind!

The best of all ways is the run a bladder/surge tank setup!! but that a little over kill on a lake boat! :p :p
 

Fl Boy in ILL

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????

I had some fuel problems in the last couple weeks myself, after changing a llot of stuff here's what we found

Talked to Tony Brucato, test 1 with the motor off, disconnect your return line and get a small gas can ~1gal. Put the return line to the can and turn on the key in ~30 sec and you should get about 1/2 gal of gas, we didn't get this we volt tested the bat all good, volt tested the fuel pump good, checked it while running and it dropped to 10 volts, had a weak ground. we redid the ground and then we pumped for 30 sec and we had 1/2 gal gas just like we should.

Rick
 

2fast4mom

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Thanks Rick, I'll do the test. What is considered normal voltage measured across the pump terminals, pumping but motor off?
 
B

BP

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Perform a voltage drop test on the negative and postive legs of your fuel pump circuit.
A voltage drop test will verify the integrity of all connections and wiring from the battery to the fuel pump.


Here is a document with a pictorial view, that describes how you perform a voltage drop test (chart3, figure2)

http://www.aa1car.com/library/carter_fuel_pump_diagnosis.pdf
 

2fast4mom

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Thanks Bob!! That is a very straightforward and simple test to perform, especially since my battery is located near the fuel pump. Great info - thanks again.
 
B

BP

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Hope it helps Lou.
I didn't see it in your posts, but are you utilizing a relay in your fuel pump circuit?
 

2fast4mom

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I don't know if there's a relay in the pump cct or not, but I just did the test:

positive side = 0.11 voltage drop
negative side = 0.05 voltage drop

sum = 0.16 volt

This was verified also by measuring battery voltage (12.40) and voltage across pump terminals (12.24V) after doing the test your link described (with pump running).

Therefore it looks like I can eliminate connection or power supply problems from the situation.

Thanks again.
 
B

BP

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Yes, you are good. :D
A typical "good" connection should drop less than .2 of a volt.

As far as having a relay goes...try to verify, because a relay in the circuit will minimize the possibilty of future voltage supply issues w/the fuel pump.
 

GFinch

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Oh my god! That fuel pump is -- the tank. But what do they know?

BP you stole my thunder, but your 100% correct. The voltage drop test is the best test for a curcuit under load. Restance tests tell only if there is a complete circuit but not if the circiut can pass current!
 
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