Anatomy of the lip, xb-2003

silverbullet02

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Was playing under my boat today ('95 XB-2003) and was looking at the lip. What is the lip supposed to be from the factory? I can't find my feeler gauges right now, but eyeballing with a straight edge the lip is only in the center of the pad. The outside probably 2 inches of the pad has no lip at all, perfectly flat with the straight edge. Hopefully I can find my gauges, but does this sound correct? Part of what prompted this is that the boat is only running about 85 with the motor 5/16" below the lip (I don't factor lip height in, just measure to the lip because it's the easiest and most consistent), and it feels like the boat is on rails, and just out of speed. Definitely feels like the motor wants to come up. I went up 1/4" tonight and we'll see what that does. Does that sound correct that the lip is only in the center portion of the pad? Thanks!

Brian
 

SLOmofo

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http://forum.allisonowners.com/showthread.php?t=9134

The last post has a pic of what mine measured...........before.

I can't seem to find my request for help on what my pad should look like from a couple of years ago.

Before, mine would get to 95mph, the bow would drop suddenly to the right and round we'd go. Since, I've been over 100 without any funny business.
 

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catfish123

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The outer 2 inches or so does not have a lip. I believe on the year boat yours is that the center of the lip was .060" and that in later years that was increased to .090".
 

silverbullet02

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Thanks guys! I'll get some feeler gauges if I can't find mine and get some measurements and see what I've got.

Brian
 

K.Kiser

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Thanks guys! I'll get some feeler gauges if I can't find mine and get some measurements and see what I've got.

Brian
Remember that the length of the straight edge used will affect the "measured" lip amount somewhat... I try to use at least an 18" edge...
 

hullbilly

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The lip on my 2000 model xb2003 has not been touched and is between .060 and .070. Hard for me to get any more precise than that.

Also...Yes, the lip does fade out on either end of the pad.

Your motor can come up. I'd start at even with the pad and go up in 1/8" increments from there. That's just based on my experience.

What motor and prop are you running?
 

SLOmofo

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If you want to get picky. You can use two sets of gauges. Take a marker and put parallel lines front to rear across the pad. Then measure on each line.
Put one gauge at the front of the straight edge, say .060 and then use the other to see if the clearance, .060 is the same front to rear. If you decide to make a change, get ahold of Bill Smith, he might send you a drawing of the tool he contrived.
If it runs on a string I would try to dissuade you from changing it.
Mine didn't and I tried alot of things to make it better. Moving stuff around in the boat different setbacks, props. It didn't lean to the right, it dropped. In my case I tried to get info on here but had very few replies. In my frustration I took it upon myself and did the deed, :cuss the lip. I lost 5mph. Then I started jacking the motor up 1/4" at a time and drove the boat in all kinds of wakes and waves, speeds and trim levels. I was over an inch above the pad when the Old Sack O Cats hucked a rod through the block. At that point I had gained 6 mph and it drove great.
While I was waiting for the rebirth of the Sack O Cats I cleaned up the whole pad. Made everything square and filled areas to make the edges sharper and uniform. Someone had done a few "repairs" prior to me buying the boat and IMHO caused the unruliness.
Now I have run it to 100.5 mph, that was a quick blip of the throttle 2/25 of a second, from cruising about 95 with a 29 SRX. About a month ago I was picking on a fairly fast Jet boat when my engine shut off at about 80/85 mph. All of a sudden the boat was turning to the right and not really reacting to my input of turn left to straighten out. I then realized the engine wasn't running, I thought I stuck it. What happened was the dock bumper that I have tied to the passenger handle had floated forward and came down on the toggle switch for the ignition thus shutting off the engine.
This is my interpretation of how the lip works. As with any V hull as the boat is pushed through the water the boat is pushed up or squeezed up by the pressure of the water against the V. The front and sides of the hull start to be lifted by the air. The water pressure against the lip becomes great enough to lift the transom thus tripping the boat. The air again lifts the bow of the boat. The angle of attack is what makes the boat slower or faster. If you can poke through the air cleanly the boat will fly like a air plane wing. The distance across the bottom of the boat is shorter then the top. If I have the rear bucket seat in the boat the vacuum in the passenger area will pull the cover inside out, also it will lift and pull the seat out of it's pin socket and the seat comes forward to my right.

http://forum.allisonowners.com/showthread.php?t=8357&page=2 Pic's

Look up the Allison hull patents. There is some good reading if you can envision it.
The Jasper pic is an XR2001 that was second to Dave
 

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catfish123

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The lip on my 1999 XB2003 was .090". I still believe that earlier 2003's had the lip at .060" and that at some point prior to my year, they were switched to .090".
 

SLOmofo

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The lip on my 2000 model xb2003 has not been touched and is between .060 and .070. Hard for me to get any more precise than that.

Also...Yes, the lip does fade out on either end of the pad.

Your motor can come up. I'd start at even with the pad and go up in 1/8" increments from there. That's just based on my experience.

What motor and prop are you running?

I believe it's a "1995 XB-2003, 2000 225 Promax"
 

catfish123

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For comparison sake.........mine is an XB2003 with 225X. I sanded off around .045" of the lip (originally .090"). I used to run it before sanding at even with the pad, (not even with the lip). I have now run it lightly loaded at 1 1/2" above the pad and I have not lost any speed. Before raising the motor, I had lost a few mph. In addition, the boat definitely handles better and I can if needed, get off the gas quicker now and it glides to a smooth, straight landing. The nose had before begun to drop from time to time when it was running over 90, that no longer happens.
 

whipper

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What Slomofo says about cutting threw the air is very inportant for higher speeds. Since I reduced the lip on my XS03 I have to run higher propshaft hights to achive what the lip did for me before with a bit lower prop shaft hight. I had to muck with it for repairs. In my opinion its easy to do it your self BUT if i was any were near the Factory I would have the bottom done at Alliosn in a heart beat.

I ended up reducing the lip to the point were you really cant feel it. So lipless really. Squareing off the edges works great and slowdowns have inproved dramaticly from 90 over having more lip. But the Lip does help make her fly more level with less hight on the propshaft. Ive done mine a dozen times or so and when I first tried to get the lip right I found fine tunning at the lake worked great if there was any ill handeling.

For instance once I was really listing to the left after a repair. So i went to shallow water and hand sanded a little more of the right side of the lip just with sand paper in hand under water by feel. Took her out for a nother rip and that little bit leveled her right out.

Its really to bad you cant buy a jig from Darris for us folks that live to far away from the Factory to do it simpler from home. Maybe when models are no longer in production he could do this for us? But i dont find any problems or speed loss having no lip. If anything I like it better. The only problem is getting used to the increases propshaft hights and the dangers this has as far as less room for error IMO.
 
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catfish123

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Whipper......here is my belief on the propshaft height thing. I do not believe that since I'm now running 1 to 1 1/2" above the pad that there is any difference at all in the relationship of the propshaft height to the surface of the water it is running through. To me, that is the important thing as far as safety goes. It's not like the propshaft or the prop is closer to the surface of the water after the lip sanding or raised motor height. It's just that the water is now not being deflected downwards as much as it was prior to sanding allowing for the raised motor height.
 

F2008

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Bob, I agree, .... I think. I'm pretty sure I do :laughing Isn't motor set back and hull weight as big of a part of the equation? I'm asking......
 

catfish123

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Motor set-back and hull weight are very large parts of the equation too, I'm sure. I don't want to come across on all this as that I really know what I'm talking about..........LOL........I just think a lot about it and Chad St. Pierre was the one who originally got me really thinking about it. I liked his approach to all this lip thing, sanding, etc, and what he told me made a whole lot of sense. I found it to be amazing that removing just .045" from that lip made such a HUGE difference in the handling of my boat as well as the fact that the motor needed to go up much higher to run the same. After all, .045" is only about 3/64" and for the removable of such a small amount of material to make such a big difference was very surprising to me to say the least. I have never looked back on my "alteration" to the lip as having done anything negative to my boat in any way. The results were all positive.
 

whipper

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I agree also Catfish. I must have been typing when you were posting similar results. I dont know how many .0004,s I sanded off I just did it by feel and testing. But I do know theres no lip just a rise and fall of the pad when I run my hand over it slow and light. Sorry if that last staitment turned anyone on.:big grin

Your belief about the case hight is what I have found also. Im running 1+ above also light and prop dapendent. I dont run my Trophys there as an example I run them even or maybe 1/4 above at the most. My Chopper style props and drag4 i run real high and also come off the pad nice and smooth. Theres alot of feel going on for me. I accully realy want to install a trim gauge now. It would be nice to know were my trim is at when running so high and run it high to the point were Im nutral and see were that is for speeds. Im sure Ive done it before because every run is a high speed run but that will take the guessing out of it.

Do you think theres a gear case shape that might work best for running higher than the norm? Like flater sides more blunt or sharper bullet,more or less setback ect ?
 

catfish123

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Whipper.......I have no idea about the gearcase but my sportmaster was modified by Robbie Patterson and I think he knows as much about the right mod's for a case going on an Allison as anyone in the business......I'm only an expert on pad sanding.........LOL.........just kidding. Anything I know about it, I learned mainly from listening to Chad, then applying his "principles" to my own mind so that I could sort of reason it out before I got out the sandpaper. I was scared to death to do it, but in my case at least, it has had a good result. I have considered taking just a little more off it but so far, I've held off on that. As far as trim is concerned, I'm running neutral to just a very little bit of positve trim. Contrary to what some others believe, I do not think that my boat runs any more "bow high" now than it did before I sanded some on the lip.
 
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chad202

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If with the lip gone, ur having to run bow high, it would mean ur to low with the motor. How's it going Bob?
 

whipper

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This is the only shot I have from a few weeks ago someone took of me running. It was a bit gusty but hear as i past the boat I was just over 80 on my way to 90 futher down the lake. Trim is fairly N probably 1/2- 3/4 above the pad. GS seems to be running pretty level.
 
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