By the way, the pro et's are great props when they are in one piece. Probably my favorite prop except I can't get ou of the hole with it. I think Performance Propellers has a close alternative now. Just make sure you explain to Billy that you don't want any stern lift.
Anyone ever tried a Merc Pro ET....
- Thread starter Allyfishing
- Start date
Allyfishing
Well-Known Member
Thanks Landar. I have the 21' 2+2 which has the cranking battery in the bilge just off center to starboard and the 2 TM batteries are all the way tucked in the back port sponson. I believe you are thinking of the 2 seater Bassport Pro with the batteries in the front deck locker. My consoles are more forward though to accommodate the 2 rear seats.
You make another good point which is what I have been diggin for all along. If the 21 footers were indeed built for the 3 liters then there is a weight difference to consider. Neal has a 2.5L on a 21' Prosport and does not seem to have any issues. YOu mentioned stern lifting props. Is the QIV-OT a stern lifting prop or a TXP OT4? I had the TXP OT4 on when that subtle turn happened. It felt like someone lifted the bow and then turned me 45* to the right.
I have a TXP 3 blade 27P that I ran a few times and it drives like a dream. I had it a bit over 80 solo and it drove easy.
Thanks for your input...I'm all ears!
Craig
You make another good point which is what I have been diggin for all along. If the 21 footers were indeed built for the 3 liters then there is a weight difference to consider. Neal has a 2.5L on a 21' Prosport and does not seem to have any issues. YOu mentioned stern lifting props. Is the QIV-OT a stern lifting prop or a TXP OT4? I had the TXP OT4 on when that subtle turn happened. It felt like someone lifted the bow and then turned me 45* to the right.
I have a TXP 3 blade 27P that I ran a few times and it drives like a dream. I had it a bit over 80 solo and it drove easy.
Thanks for your input...I'm all ears!
Craig
Darth VMAX
Well-Known Member
Very interesting subject. However, I have to disagree with the thought that the XB21's were "designed" for the 3.0L and up outboards.
The fact that the ORIGINAL max HP rating of 175 points to this. When the 2.5L 200xs was proven is when the max went to 200hp (I still have the original XB21 borchure with the 175 max covered with a little sticker with "200" typed on it.
Beings the XB21 was released in 2003 the main 3 ltr's from Merc were the 225 EFI, 250xb, xs, and 300x you would have thought they would have had the 3.0 blessing then. But they only had the 175 and then 200 which makes me believe Darris was still in the 2.5/2.6L mindset. Also, how many years was Darris developing the XB21? If the 23/24' Grandsport is any indication then the original design would have been designed in the heyday of the 2.5L Mercury
My .02
The fact that the ORIGINAL max HP rating of 175 points to this. When the 2.5L 200xs was proven is when the max went to 200hp (I still have the original XB21 borchure with the 175 max covered with a little sticker with "200" typed on it.
Beings the XB21 was released in 2003 the main 3 ltr's from Merc were the 225 EFI, 250xb, xs, and 300x you would have thought they would have had the 3.0 blessing then. But they only had the 175 and then 200 which makes me believe Darris was still in the 2.5/2.6L mindset. Also, how many years was Darris developing the XB21? If the 23/24' Grandsport is any indication then the original design would have been designed in the heyday of the 2.5L Mercury
My .02
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whipper
Well-Known Member
I agree with that also Darth. I went back on the production of those boats also and correlated the year and power options of the time. Back in 2003 I was actually looking at the XB as I was fishing every day off. I didn't think the prosport was being built as long as it has. Time goes to darn fast! The hulls can handle the 3.0LT motor with no weight restrictions like the XB03 is all. In the B&W article on the Allison site they had the XB21 Bassport 2x2 to 82 with a 200 2.5 two up. Hears an excerpt from the B&W article of 2008 saying what you said Darth suggesting the 3.0 they can handle NOT that they were designed specifically for. B&W-To me this would sugest that they were designed to handel either power choice 2.5 or 3.0LT not just the motors under 440lbs like the older models.
Despite initial fears that the
3.0L Mercury would be too bulky and
heavy, it
Despite initial fears that the
3.0L Mercury would be too bulky and
heavy, it
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Allyfishing
Well-Known Member
Darth and Whipper, you guys are absloutely correct! I still have that issue from Feb 2003 when the XB21 2+2 was introduced and tested in the mag. I stand corrected. Sooooo, that leaves me wondering then. Where do I go from here??
I called the factory today and explained everything to Todd and he is going to get with Darris and discuss it and let me know. I am curious now??!! Maybe I just need to keep the prop deeper so I can trim up to and a hair above neutral so the arse end stays put.
Thanks for setting me straight on that. Any suggestions other than finding another 2+2 owner with a 225 PM!!??? LOL!!
I called the factory today and explained everything to Todd and he is going to get with Darris and discuss it and let me know. I am curious now??!! Maybe I just need to keep the prop deeper so I can trim up to and a hair above neutral so the arse end stays put.
Thanks for setting me straight on that. Any suggestions other than finding another 2+2 owner with a 225 PM!!??? LOL!!
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whipper
Well-Known Member
I just edited some more there as you posted yours. They were running 5/8 ABOVE the pad. Now this was a pro model not the 2x2 like yours and they had a 3.0lt on in the test not a 2.5 so? Off course they were useing one of Darris,s famed 27 Trophys to 89mph.:big grin They also said in the artical that Darris took the edges of the pad off a bit for this 08 model years compared to privious years XB21,s. Weather or not that has any relation to yours I dont know. Ijust foundthat interesting. If yours is a 07 or later model you might ask Todd or Darris about if your hull would beniffit from this also? Hears what they said.
These
hulls beg for top-rated power, but at
higher speeds, the pronounced lip
can become challenging. In response
to this, Allison smoothed the edges
on the lip of the new XB-21. As a
result, our test XB handled like it was
on rails at any speed, even with the
centerline of the propeller shaft
hulls beg for top-rated power, but at
higher speeds, the pronounced lip
can become challenging. In response
to this, Allison smoothed the edges
on the lip of the new XB-21. As a
result, our test XB handled like it was
on rails at any speed, even with the
centerline of the propeller shaft
jacked to
5⁄8-inch above the bottom of
the pad.
the pad.
whipper
Well-Known Member
Just doing some quick calculations comparing the 89mph they got with the Pro with a 3.0lt and knowing what youve done to your motor and the 2x2,s hull. If they were at 8.5 setback with 2deg wedges with a longer deck and seating being farther aft. I figure with your more forward seating arangment having your wieght more forward if you use the same setback with 100LB+ of lighter motor your fulcrum point on the hull will not be centered as well. Im not cirtain as to how much your seated wieght is forward but it looks like alot? You would require more trim to achieve the same bow hight as on the promodel setup the same. So If you were to move your motor back to have 4 more inches of setback you would bring back the fulcrum requiring less trim and gain better effictioncy. A general rule is heavier motor less setback but not always. The hull bottoms in these cases if there the same and its just the top deck and seating thats differant because of your lighter power yet same hp {yours has more I would think}? To lift the hull were its optomzed to carry the 1400lb hull onto the pad with the bow at a more level hight you may need to add wedges with that 12+ inches of setback? It makes sence on paper i hope Darris will give you what you need to run safer and faster. Theres no reason I can see why you shouldnt be able to run low 90,s if the 225 3.0 can run that with your strong 225 SVS and ACU with the right prop why not. In the artical they said Sanderson was getting over 90 with his 225 3.0 setup on a XB21 Bassport Pro. I know the farther the wieght is back on a Vee hull the faster they run. There surly must be a way to compinsate for this with setup seeing that the 2x2 has more wieght forward. BTW what is your setback?
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GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
Are you going to fast pass in a couple of weeks?
YOu mentioned stern lifting props. Is the QIV-OT a stern lifting prop or a TXP OT4? I had the TXP OT4 on when that subtle turn happened. It felt like someone lifted the bow and then turned me 45* to the right.
Biggest difference I can tell in these two props, the only two I have at the moment is on the quad 4, seems Todd has all the cup in the tips and no noticable cup in the trailing edge, the OT 4 has significant cup in the tips and the trailing edge maybe someone can explain how that effects them. Maybe the cup needs to be taken out of the trailing edge of the OT4s to perform better????
Don't know a lot but very interested and I try to observe and read a lot, just a newbie still learning
Biggest difference I can tell in these two props, the only two I have at the moment is on the quad 4, seems Todd has all the cup in the tips and no noticable cup in the trailing edge, the OT 4 has significant cup in the tips and the trailing edge maybe someone can explain how that effects them. Maybe the cup needs to be taken out of the trailing edge of the OT4s to perform better????
Don't know a lot but very interested and I try to observe and read a lot, just a newbie still learning
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Allyfishing
Well-Known Member
No and I wish I were now. Only so much time in the summer months to getaway like that. We went to our first Ally Rally this year. I know what your thinking Neal and I appreciate it!
Allyfishing
Well-Known Member
James, you make total sense. It has been what I have been thinking as well. I rationalized it the same way. I didn't figure on getting to 89 but did hope to get in the upper 80's and that "drive like it was on rails" feeling. And I know some who read this are probably just thinking that I just need to LEARN TO DRIVE THE DARN BOAT AND QUITE WHINING! LOL
According to the wrong cover that I received when I bought the boat (mistake, I have the Bassport Pro cover) the double sewn reinforced stitching for the windshields are behind my seat backs. That puts the seats back about 2 feet or so. I have the CMC hydraulic JP and the 2" spacers plus wedges. Oh and my hull is a model 2008 also but ai don't know if it has the smoothed lip or not. Something to ask Todd when I talk to him.
If Todd talks to Darris about this today or tomorrow I may hear from Todd by end of day tomorrow. It is the holiday coming up so I won't push for an answer til after Monday.
Todd did mention on the phone today that there is one guy there with a 150 EFI on a Bassport Pro model and more setback than normal cuz his engine is light also. So there may be something to it after all.
According to the wrong cover that I received when I bought the boat (mistake, I have the Bassport Pro cover) the double sewn reinforced stitching for the windshields are behind my seat backs. That puts the seats back about 2 feet or so. I have the CMC hydraulic JP and the 2" spacers plus wedges. Oh and my hull is a model 2008 also but ai don't know if it has the smoothed lip or not. Something to ask Todd when I talk to him.
If Todd talks to Darris about this today or tomorrow I may hear from Todd by end of day tomorrow. It is the holiday coming up so I won't push for an answer til after Monday.
Todd did mention on the phone today that there is one guy there with a 150 EFI on a Bassport Pro model and more setback than normal cuz his engine is light also. So there may be something to it after all.
Allyfishing
Well-Known Member
So then how is one to determine what cupping we need on boats like ours? If my back end is lighter with a lighter weight engine then I would not need cupping on the trailing edges only on the tips right?
Don't most Allison have overall hull lift including ours?
TBuck2003
Moderator
Craig call me...
Todd
Todd
Allyfishing
Well-Known Member
Thanks Todd...I was planning on it once I had my thoughts straight and some concrete facts and could formulate an intelligent question! LOL
Craig
Craig