Seat time will have you correcting the boat before it has an issue. Only when I am distracted will I get behind-the-curve on the correction and the boat tries to gain control. It was the same with my Hydrostream Vector at high speeds. I run my boat severely unbalanced all the time and it requires my full attention at high speeds.
Allison Drivers School
- Thread starter allimax
- Start date
IMO, leveling the boat sitting in the water will get it close, but adjustments may be needed at speed to get it perfect. Because ever prop is different, and torques the boat a little different. Usually, the bigger props "as stated above" require more port side weight. If adjustments are needed at speed, stop the boat and shift weight as needed, than try it again at speed.
allimax
Active Member
Great info and you guys kept me out of trouble with the other half.
Scott in MN
Active Member
Few years ago there was a well known guy on S&F that drove a Mirage and played a joke on the members saying he had bought an Allison and was going to drive that instead. He went on to say he was practicing driving the Ally by putting his life jacket on, having his wife hit him in the ribs with a bat and then rolling down the stairs. Got a chuckle out of that.....
waterqtr
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Funny story...
In the late 80's I worked at an Allison dealer in BTR and on a few occassions went to the lake with new XTB owners who said something was wrong with their boats... We had a pretty good standard setup for an XTB with wither a 200 or a 220 laser efi... Bobs lower & a 26 chopper...
We'd take the boat out fully loaded just like they were trying to drive it... Every time we started with them driving and when I got scared we stopped & I drove. The number 1 thing new owners were doing was over correcting and over driving the boat. Without fail we we got back to the trailer and Jack said well??? They would say, it's not the boat!!!
I know the XTB is a lot different then the other hulls but it's been mentioned numerous times on posts over the year that this is one of the most common errors. It takes a lot of seat time to listen to your buttt and do what the boat says it needs.
Regardless of the model... A lot of seat time & small wheel movements... You'll get it locked on and on a rail.....
In the late 80's I worked at an Allison dealer in BTR and on a few occassions went to the lake with new XTB owners who said something was wrong with their boats... We had a pretty good standard setup for an XTB with wither a 200 or a 220 laser efi... Bobs lower & a 26 chopper...
We'd take the boat out fully loaded just like they were trying to drive it... Every time we started with them driving and when I got scared we stopped & I drove. The number 1 thing new owners were doing was over correcting and over driving the boat. Without fail we we got back to the trailer and Jack said well??? They would say, it's not the boat!!!
I know the XTB is a lot different then the other hulls but it's been mentioned numerous times on posts over the year that this is one of the most common errors. It takes a lot of seat time to listen to your buttt and do what the boat says it needs.
Regardless of the model... A lot of seat time & small wheel movements... You'll get it locked on and on a rail.....
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allimax
Active Member
You know, I watched this clip on BBC again last night on chine:
http://www.bbcboards.net/novice-boaters-forum/175680-chine-walk-video.html
Not sure that linked correct but I bet most have seen it. No, not an Allison, so maybe it will act different. You can see the whole hull pushing right and left pretty good here. What I'm getting at 65 is not the same. It feels to me like it's still tracking straight but the sides flutter real fast up & down just a few inches. Not near as severe pointing right and then left as the video shows and I would call that more of a wallow. Different effect due to a different hull or something else?
It also looks to me like he's making some major corrections with the steering wheel, not small adjustments.
Guess I could mount the camera to the rear seat post, give her h*ll and we could maybe catch a cool bat turn to watch.
http://www.bbcboards.net/novice-boaters-forum/175680-chine-walk-video.html
Not sure that linked correct but I bet most have seen it. No, not an Allison, so maybe it will act different. You can see the whole hull pushing right and left pretty good here. What I'm getting at 65 is not the same. It feels to me like it's still tracking straight but the sides flutter real fast up & down just a few inches. Not near as severe pointing right and then left as the video shows and I would call that more of a wallow. Different effect due to a different hull or something else?
It also looks to me like he's making some major corrections with the steering wheel, not small adjustments.
Guess I could mount the camera to the rear seat post, give her h*ll and we could maybe catch a cool bat turn to watch.
catfish123
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"Stine's driving school" is now scheduling driving lessons on June 8th, 9th, 10th and June 28th, 29th 30th...............LOL................C'mon up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
allimax
Active Member
Bob, That got a big smile! You're one heck of a great guy. I really want to make this happen but the wife has other plans.:sad She has a trip planed to go to Maine for a week in June. Hey I really like Maine but to spend a week on a lake up there and leaving the boat here will be total torcher! We'll get together just have to be later in the year. Of course as much time as I spend on here learning during work..........I might get an early retirement in which case I'll be right up!
Bobalouie
Active Member
Dont look at the bow was the best advice I got. Let your inner ear tell you what is going on. The boat, when riding on the pad, is going to want to fall off to the left and right. If you wait for the boat to go one way or the other and then try to correct it, you will be behind the power curve and it will be too late. Since you know the boat is going to fall one way or the other, give it a twitch of the wheel to one side. Usually on my boat, I give more twitches to the left than the right.
Just a twitch, like and inch or two movement at the wheel. For me it is too the left, then back to center. then repeat. Since the boat naturally wants to fall of the pad, the key to driving it is to set up those movements yourself. Dont let the boat do it for you. If YOU set up the pattern, you can control it. If the BOAT sets up the pattern, it is very difficult to get back ahead of it.
So, in effect, what you are doing when you twitch left, is you are telling the boat, I want you to start falling off the pad to the left. Then, when you return to center, you are telling the boat to stop doing that. If you twitch a little to far to the left, and when you return to center, you dont feel it come all the way back, you twitch a little to the right. Its simple but not easy. Just remember, YOU set up the pattern from the get go. Dont let the boat do it for you. Thats why Allison's are a drivers boat, you are doing something all the time!
Just a twitch, like and inch or two movement at the wheel. For me it is too the left, then back to center. then repeat. Since the boat naturally wants to fall of the pad, the key to driving it is to set up those movements yourself. Dont let the boat do it for you. If YOU set up the pattern, you can control it. If the BOAT sets up the pattern, it is very difficult to get back ahead of it.
So, in effect, what you are doing when you twitch left, is you are telling the boat, I want you to start falling off the pad to the left. Then, when you return to center, you are telling the boat to stop doing that. If you twitch a little to far to the left, and when you return to center, you dont feel it come all the way back, you twitch a little to the right. Its simple but not easy. Just remember, YOU set up the pattern from the get go. Dont let the boat do it for you. Thats why Allison's are a drivers boat, you are doing something all the time!
catfish123
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It's a lot like maintaining a successful marriage.................You have to anticipate what your wife wants, and give it to her before she asks you for it..................well, at least in some things...................
allimax
Active Member
That could be it....so why am I still married after 28 years? Yea, I defiantly over analyze everything. It will be interesting for me once I've got it down. Just saying it isn't the same thing as the video. Feels more like the rear is moving side to side causing the sides to shake. Front going nice and straight.
Seat time. I didn't learn to drive a car over night.
Seat time. I didn't learn to drive a car over night.
GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
Not sure what kinda boat that is in the video, but rest assured it's some kind of big heavy lead-sled. I doubt it gets up on the pad and runs clean like an Allison. It's probably running with a lot of hull in the water and with that being the case, it is more of a wallow like you said. There's a lot less of the allison in the water and you're balancing on a smaller surface, that's why the inputs are going to be so much smaller. Also, the boat in the video probably has the gearcase buried. It has to. On an Allison, there's a lot less rudder in the water, but I can make my boat wallow around like that by burying the gearcase.
Tim Bostic
Active Member
Watching the video......
That type of chine-walking is usually around 65 mph, just like the guy said, and it is caused by the motor being too low in the water. When you start to trim the engine out, the cavitation plate starts dragging in the water and as one side lets go, the other side digs in. This starts off slow at first, just like the video shows, and progressively gets worse until the boat becomes a handful, just like in the video. The solution to this problem is of course, raise the engine!
The other forms of chine-walking can involve many other aspects already mentioned such as loose steering, engine mounts, screwed-up boat bottoms, lower unit damage, prop selection, basic setup, etc.
When someone calls the shop with handling problems, it is very difficult to do over the phone...... if they bring the boat by and let me look at it, 5 minutes or less is all it takes to check obvious problems.... if everything checks ok, then a trip to the lake will tell us what's going on.
After the holiday, I'll drop the engine on my XTB21 and video the cavitation plate at the speed it starts to chine-walk & then raise the engine and shoot it again at full speed.
That type of chine-walking is usually around 65 mph, just like the guy said, and it is caused by the motor being too low in the water. When you start to trim the engine out, the cavitation plate starts dragging in the water and as one side lets go, the other side digs in. This starts off slow at first, just like the video shows, and progressively gets worse until the boat becomes a handful, just like in the video. The solution to this problem is of course, raise the engine!
The other forms of chine-walking can involve many other aspects already mentioned such as loose steering, engine mounts, screwed-up boat bottoms, lower unit damage, prop selection, basic setup, etc.
When someone calls the shop with handling problems, it is very difficult to do over the phone...... if they bring the boat by and let me look at it, 5 minutes or less is all it takes to check obvious problems.... if everything checks ok, then a trip to the lake will tell us what's going on.
After the holiday, I'll drop the engine on my XTB21 and video the cavitation plate at the speed it starts to chine-walk & then raise the engine and shoot it again at full speed.
jas638
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at first when i got my grandsport couldn't take it over 65. had a 5 1/2 inch setback and was running a 26 chopperII. had a stock cle lower. it handled like crap!. said to my brother "what the hell did i buy?". but with the help of this forum, changed the set up. first got me a triton 1 HOSS prop.then got me some setback ,10 1/2 inch,then sent my case to titus.lastly,got a hydraulic steering!!!! now i can no-hand her to 80-85,one hand her to 90-95.and she cruises at 100+.I AM NOT BULL-CRAPING. these guys know allys and their not lying when they say setup is everything.i have no chine walk at all. just some lead shot on the port and she runs flat. i don't know for sure but i heard the grand sport is the hardest to learn to drive? some say the ss.
allimax
Active Member
I do think it's me but let's confirm what we're dealing with. 99 XB2003, 2000 promax 225, sportmaster with a 28 Hydromotive Quad OT, 14.5" set back, even with the pad. Rig was set up at an Allison Dealer and Todd at Hydromotive built the prop for this set up. Pad feels great still with lip but I don't have any experience on how you really check the pad (machined straight edge & feeler gauges)?
There is so much I want ( and will) learn yet. This is a great site and everyone is so willing to go way out of there way to teach a new comer to the "Allison World". It amazes me how much the factory guys and dealers are willing to do from all the stories I've been hearing. The more I learn the more I can't image why one would buy any other brand boat unless uneducated or can't fit one in there price range. (Or maybe they just liked all the sparkle) I shouldn't say that, there are some fine fishing machines out there and if the price is right it could be a good buy. I wanted a hull that was going to stand the test of time, run clean, be fuel efficient and give my wife wind protection. The fact I find it so beautiful to look at and the crazy speed potential was a bonus.:soap box
Now to master it!
There is so much I want ( and will) learn yet. This is a great site and everyone is so willing to go way out of there way to teach a new comer to the "Allison World". It amazes me how much the factory guys and dealers are willing to do from all the stories I've been hearing. The more I learn the more I can't image why one would buy any other brand boat unless uneducated or can't fit one in there price range. (Or maybe they just liked all the sparkle) I shouldn't say that, there are some fine fishing machines out there and if the price is right it could be a good buy. I wanted a hull that was going to stand the test of time, run clean, be fuel efficient and give my wife wind protection. The fact I find it so beautiful to look at and the crazy speed potential was a bonus.:soap box
Now to master it!
whipper
Well-Known Member
Youll know if your balanced right the second you step on the gas before the hull comes over on plain.
We really have a responsability to the new owners to teach them some basics before they drive away with there 80-100+mph boat I think.
I was luckey enough to have Brian spend a week with me teaching me the basics on lake Murry SC with my GS before I went out on my own. i video taped lots and got to play the tapes over and over to remember what to do. I wish I had those tapes now VHS. They would be helpfull to someone else. Brian would run her up to 90 mph explaining to me in the passanger seat what was happening and what do do and not to do. Awsome. Could not have learned to drive to full speed sooner without his help. I truly still to this day feel we have a responsability to the new owner to give them some instruction before they take possetion.
We really have a responsability to the new owners to teach them some basics before they drive away with there 80-100+mph boat I think.
I was luckey enough to have Brian spend a week with me teaching me the basics on lake Murry SC with my GS before I went out on my own. i video taped lots and got to play the tapes over and over to remember what to do. I wish I had those tapes now VHS. They would be helpfull to someone else. Brian would run her up to 90 mph explaining to me in the passanger seat what was happening and what do do and not to do. Awsome. Could not have learned to drive to full speed sooner without his help. I truly still to this day feel we have a responsability to the new owner to give them some instruction before they take possetion.
jas638
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well where the heck are you when i got my boat? ehy! o wait i know probably in yours, or maybe behind the computer:beer:
allimax
Active Member
10K, That's impressive. Is that a JSRE sticker I see on there?
Whipper, so well said.
I'm glad to see this title has received so many looks, that was kinda my intent. Bob from "B.S Driving School"......:big grin.....(might want to send me that middle initial) was telling me about how his Allison dealer spent 2 days with him making sure he had the basics down so he would be safe. I had read the Allison
Whipper, so well said.
I'm glad to see this title has received so many looks, that was kinda my intent. Bob from "B.S Driving School"......:big grin.....(might want to send me that middle initial) was telling me about how his Allison dealer spent 2 days with him making sure he had the basics down so he would be safe. I had read the Allison
whipper
Well-Known Member
Ya well you all know in the winter its to cold out side so the puter is the life line and summer only comes once a year cant get me out of the Allison on days off.:big grin :beer: