XB2003 set up help

[300R Ally 2+2]

I have a 2000 xb2003 with a 2000 Merc 280. The engine height is 1/8" below the pad and I have neutral trim marked on my stainless marine gauge. With two guys at 210 and fishing gear :gone fishing with the setup, I cant get it over 75. I can trim more and the rpm's pickup but I read that too much trim could cause the bat turn. :help Should I raise the motor and keep the trim at neutral or....? It has 14.5" set back, Hydro OT 26 4 blade at 3400 foot elevation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[GotMyAlly]

I wouldn't raise the motor any higher. With two guys, you probably need more trim....but I'd recommend getting an experienced Allison driver to feel it out if you're unsure about it.

 

[whipper]

I wouldn't raise the motor any higher. With two guys, you probably need more trim....but I'd recommend getting an experienced Allison driver to feel it out if you're unsure about it.

Great advice. Theres a way to find out were max trim is but not with a Passenger. {Safety first} Its one thing to risk your self, another thing some one else. Its always a good to know what the rpm was at your speed along with the gear ratio of your lower with the engine.

The advice of GotMayAlly will save you hundreds of hours in seat time. Your hull and engine combo is capable of a lot more but be patient it will come. Best to practice on your own and have a little note pad on board and write all the things you try good and bad. Being weight sensitive even just one passenger makes a night and day difference in running and what to expect for performance. Trim is your best friend or your enemy!! If respected will never let you down. If not respected will hurt you or worse. Its all about the feel.

 

[brund]

When you say you cant go over 75 is it walking on you or is your foot to the floor and that all you are getting. When you trim and the rpm goes up do you pick up speed at the same time????? I have same boat motor and prop I am on my 3rd year and set up and seat time is helping the most for me.

 

[TBuck2003]

I have a 2000 xb2003 with a 2000 Merc 280. The engine height is 1/8" below the pad and I have neutral trim marked on my stainless marine gauge. With two guys at 210 and fishing gear :gone fishing with the setup, I cant get it over 75. I can trim more and the rpm's pickup but I read that too much trim could cause the bat turn. :help Should I raise the motor and keep the trim at neutral or....? It has 14.5" set back, Hydro OT 26 4 blade at 3400 foot elevation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Call me something is way off...

Todd

 

[BASS BUM]

I have a 2000 xb2003 with a 2000 Merc 280. The engine height is 1/8" below the pad and I have neutral trim marked on my stainless marine gauge. With two guys at 210 and fishing gear :gone fishing with the setup, I cant get it over 75. I can trim more and the rpm's pickup but I read that too much trim could cause the bat turn. :help Should I raise the motor and keep the trim at neutral or....? It has 14.5" set back, Hydro OT 26 4 blade at 3400 foot elevation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

what a lot of people don't understand is elevation and how much it takes out of these engines. i run at 4350' elevation at elephant butte New Mexico. i put a 2003 280 ss with a stock sportmaster 187 gears on my 2000 2003 xb about 5 years ago and i could never get the speeds these guy do at sea level. that's the 1st thing you have to accept. the second thing is the weight of your partner and his gear and a full tank of gas. my partner weighs about 240 and his gear about 40lbs the boat reacts a lot different with him in the boat. it takes a
lot more trim with him. you may want to have the allison mods done by jc or titus on your lower if you are concerned about bat turns. i had a 225 pm for 9 years with the mods done to the lower before the 280 and the boat handles totally different. i recently sent my 280 power head to j smith to do all the bells and whistles he can do and i am seriously considering sending my lower off to have the mods done to it. i have not had a chance to run it by myself since the build so i can't give you any #s. i run a 26 hydro like yours and a 26 trophy that was balanced and blueprinted by todd and the trophy is faster. leave your partner on the shore to play and learn and like everyone else has told you seat time is your best friend.

 

[whipper]

i boat in the 2200-3500ft range also and yes it does make about 8% less power per 1000ft. The loss of compression is a big factor and putting on some tighter heads sure helped a lot. In SC on the 225 when I bought it was 125 across the bored. At home at 2300ft it was 118-120. I added 33cc heads from Jay and now have 130. The air fuel mix I took car of with an adjustable acu from Brocato. With a lot of help from Jay and Tony I was able to fatten up the fuel to feed the heads and get the air fuel mix dialed to compensate for the thinner air. 7500 rpm limiter to run smaller wheels also. Before this I would squeeze 90 with a healthy 30 on a good day. Now I can run 97 on a good day with a 28. 94-95 most any day at 2400 ft above sea level or less.

A 280 should see 85 two up no problem like my XS2003 225 at 3400ft when it was stock. 90 solo light with a good wheel. I would highly recommend doing a comp test to see what your getting. then call Jay and figure out how many cc tighter youll need to get it at least back to normal. The acu from Brucato will also help and maybe SVS for sure if you can. Heads are cheep to get done and a real must get the motor back up to reg comp numbers. Then the fuel and air. You just have to always keep in mind if you boat at a lower elevation to dial back the acu,s fuel mix. I have set numbers for every lake I boat down to the lowest at 700ft on vacation. Good luck.:beer:

 

[Bobalouie]

Neutral trim at rest on the trailer when you mark your gauge is when the propshaft is level with the pad. That is NOT neutral trim when running down the lake because the boat makes a 5-7 deg angle with the surface of the water. Therefore to have the propshaft pointed parallel with the direction of travel, you will have to be trimmed up 5-7 more degrees.

On my boat, I marked the trim gauge at neutral on the trailer, and that was about 6 on the trim gauge. If I ran it there, the boat ran dirty with too much hull in the water, it felt like it was plowing, and I could only get it up to about 80 mph. The trim where it liked to run was at 8.25 on the gauge, and that made the hull fly and was good for 20 more mph.

I dont think you are trimming near enough.

What I did to get over the fear of bat turning is run about 60 mph, and keep bumping the trim up until the back end feels like you are driving on ice. It feels like it is skating around back there, like it wont take a set. That is your never exceed value, and for my boat, it was well over 9 on the gauge. That way, if you go to far, you bat turn at 60, which is like making a hard turn on a jet ski, so no big deal.

Bottom line is you are going to have to trim it up more to clean the hull up, if you are only trimming to neutral as marked on a gauge while sitting on a trailer and leveled.

 

[FlatOutAlly]

..... it does make about 8% less power per 1000ft.

HP Loss = (elevation x 0.03 x horsepower @ sea level)/1000

Nowhere near 8%/1000 ft of elevation. If so at 3500 ft your 225/240 is now a 175... :rolling eyes

 

[GotMyAlly]

HP Loss = (elevation x 0.03 x horsepower @ sea level)/1000

Nowhere near 8%/1000 ft of elevation. If so at 3500 ft your 225/240 is now a 175... :rolling eyes

Take it on up to CO and you're left with a 9.9

 

[FlatOutAlly]

Yep. My kid just moved to Co Springs. He's still waiting for his body to acclimate too.

 

[300R Ally 2+2]

When trimming past neutral on the trailer it definitely lifts the bow and picks up speed. I was WOT with 1.87 sporty balanced hull. I'll try more trim. I understand the loss in HP at elevation. I'll call TBuck on this. What work is done on the sporty for these boats? Mine is stock.

BTW..a Thanks to everyone for the help....this forum and the Ally owners are top notch and appreciated!

 

[Bobalouie]

Here is a photo of the mid I used to have to give you an idea. The skeg was trimmed and one water inlet hole was filled. It was the hole furthest on the port side. I think it also had a little shaping on the front of the bullet. It was done by Robbie Patterson, and it drove like a dream.

 

[whipper]

HP Loss = (elevation x 0.03 x horsepower @ sea level)/1000

Nowhere near 8%/1000 ft of elevation. If so at 3500 ft your 225/240 is now a 175... :rolling eyes

Your right just checked my book. Haven't in years.:rolling eyes I meant to say 8% loss were I boat in the 2300-2600ft range at 3-3.5%. At 2500ft a 225 hp motor becomes a 200hp motor power wise. If you take the power figures most say that a promax actually develops, {240hp stock} then that would mean its making 220hp at only 2500ft above sea level. BRP,s manual says 3.5% per thousand feet but whos counting.:laughing

No matter what way you slice it its a huge loss when your looking for gains. At 3500ft thats a whopping 12%.A 280hp motor now becomes the equivalent of a 225 promax with a 33hp loss.

Like i said you'll need to do some things to try and make some of that up if speed matters. Tony at Brucato and Jay Smith were a huge help in making mine perform like a 225 on an XS at sea even at elevation. When i ran 97 at 2300ft with a 225 I was pretty happy with that result. thats about were a strong 225 runs at sea level setup right. It took me over 5 years of tinkering to get there!!:banghead

 

[BASS BUM]

When trimming past neutral on the trailer it definitely lifts the bow and picks up speed. I was WOT with 1.87 sporty balanced hull. I'll try more trim. I understand the loss in HP at elevation. I'll call TBuck on this. What work is done on the sporty for these boats? Mine is stock.

BTW..a Thanks to everyone for the help....this forum and the Ally owners are top notch and appreciated!

you also may research custom marine and welding www.low-h2o.com that is titus's site. he has pictures of what he can do for you. i had 2 done by jc and they are close to the same as titus's. also i had a long conversation with j smith about cutting the heads on my 280 and he convinced me not to do it. he said he rarely cuts them on the 280's. when i had him do my build i was looking for dependable power with ease of use. but if your looking to go that route he is the one to talk to.

 

[2Fast2Pass]

When running a SM on a 2003, doing a bunch of gearcase mods is a waste of $$$ IMO! All you need is a good torque tab. Finding the right prop and a good set up is far more important than gearcase mods!!

 

[chad202]

It depends what your case is doing. If it's trying to dive instead of surfacing then it needs to be worked. Some do and some don't.

 

[brotherxb03]

I had a fuel injected ford van in 1989 and when I'd visit my sister in Denver, the transmission would act up do to the altitude and engine performance, so engines don't like altitude.