Rebuilding decsions 200/225

[90 5.0]

So, I have a 200 promax with alot of 225 parts and high hours and thinking of rebuilding when this tourney season ends and i have a gap between seasons.

Basically my 200 pm has 225 front half, ecu cut heads etc.


It has good compression etc, not showing any signs of "about to blow up" like knocking or anything, but it's getting up there in hours and i should do something at the end of tourney season.

I was about to put a 280 on it but decided not to since i fish some t's with a 250 hp limit.

The real question is should I rebuild the 200 block or find a 225 "short block" if you will(don't know the term for it in outboards) to rebuild and keep the 200 for a spare or sell it??


I don't want to just sell my drop on and pick up a 225 drop on since i have replaced almost all the electronics on it in the past year(trigger,vr's,switchboxes etc etc).

I don't want to get another drop on and have those go bad again(as would be my luck).

How much am i leaving on the table as far as hp staying with the 200 block??

I've heard none to 15hp form some people.

Is it worth it to hunt down another block to rebuild??

 

[suicidealli]

I'm looking for a 200 to build. I would be interested complete or just a rotator, and you keep your electronics for spares.

I have a 2007 280 with drag electronics with 15 hours on it.
513-207-2131

Roy

 

[xb03fs]

If you already have the 7 petal front, I like to read all kinds of threads and am a search feature whore per sey.

The remaining difference per what I have read would be
-widen the rod slots to 225 promax
-relieve the exhust to 225 specs
-relieve the linter (some 225's had this some didn't from what I have read)
-recurve the ECU to meet the new demands

I believe I also read that ruck does this and not much more extra when cleaning up the cylinder holes. Also read you don't have to stop there or go for more.

 

[suicidealli]

A 200 promax block is exactly the same as a 200 efi block, just no paint, and higher rev limiter. You can have ruck cut it to a 225, 260, 280, drag specs. Also have the top bearing cut for a big bearing. Just take $$

Roy

 

[90 5.0]

If you already have the 7 petal front, I like to read all kinds of threads and am a search feature whore per sey.

The remaining difference per what I have read would be
-widen the rod slots to 225 promax
-relieve the exhust to 225 specs
-relieve the linter (some 225's had this some didn't from what I have read)
-recurve the ECU to meet the new demands

I believe I also read that ruck does this and not much more extra when cleaning up the cylinder holes. Also read you don't have to stop there or go for more.

If i were to have someone else do the work, i've been told not to worry about the block because they will get 250-260 out of it with my block but i'm thinking more along the lines of building it myself, which means no block cutting.

Or i guess i could have them do all the machine work like that to the block too when they clean up the cylinders and bore if necessary.

But i was thinking that if i had block work done I might become illegal for tournaments(don't really know the rules regarding this on all series).

And it would be illegal if i decided to make a few races for fun like performance b&s or something.

I think, and i'm not sure on this but the port heights and a few other things are different??

My last tourney of the season is october 24-28th for the championship so i have till then to research/think about it..

 

[90 5.0]

A 200 promax block is exactly the same as a 200 efi block, just no paint, and higher rev limiter. You can have ruck cut it to a 225, 260, 280, drag specs. Also have the top bearing cut for a big bearing. Just take $$

Roy

Really?? I thought there were quite a few differences between the efi and pm blocks, but i'm just going off of hearsay and don't have any real world knowledge on this mater.

What ever i do , i don't want to cut it too big and kill the bottom end and make it a pig whith heavy tourney loads.

Also has to be able to idle for long periods of time without problems(loading up etc) for graphing with side scan.

 

[Jimxb02]

I believe Suicidealli is correct. My engine builder showed me a few years ago the only difference is the higher rev limiter on the PM. The big difference with the 225 PM are the port dimensions.

Jim

 

[h2oskiier30]

I believe Suicidealli is correct. My engine builder showed me a few years ago the only difference is the higher rev limiter on the PM. The big difference with the 225 PM are the port dimensions.

Jim

There are some "behind the liner" differences between the 200 block and the 225PM block.

More horsepower can be had from the 225PM block than from the 200 block.

 

[suicidealli]

There are some "behind the liner" differences between the 200 block and the 225PM block.

More horsepower can be had from the 225PM block than from the 200 block.

Yes the 225 is different......

Roy

 

[90 5.0]

Are the lightened wizards good pistons for a fishing motor, or should i go back with stock??

Also which rings, i see there are a few different options there.

Bearings? I've seen "steel cage" mentioned before in other threads. I didn't see any mention of bearings in the piston kit on wizards site, does the kit come with bearings or is it just piston and rings??

It doesn't say anything about wristpins either, do these come with the kit? I would assume so, even though it doesn't mention it??

 

[suicidealli]

Wizards are good pistons for a pro max. The cheaper piston would be the vertex, and is also a good piston, but it is a cast piston. Can't really compare the 2 from just price.


I have found out the lighter the piston, the less wear I find at time of rebuild. Just what I have found.
The lightweight wizards are a good piston.IMO yes they come with wrist pins, and circle clips. No bearings...
There is a lightweight wrist pin option too.

Yes the steel cage bearings are a must IMO, not an option. For the rod bearings on the crank. They have loose needle bearings around the wrist pin.

Roy

 

[90 5.0]

Wizards are good pistons for a pro max. The cheaper piston would be the vertex, and is also a good piston, but it is a cast piston. Can't really compare the 2 from just price.


I have found out the lighter the piston, the less wear I find at time of rebuild. Just what I have found.
The lightweight wizards are a good piston.IMO yes they come with wrist pins, and circle clips. No bearings...
There is a lightweight wrist pin option too.

Yes the steel cage bearings are a must IMO, not an option. For the rod bearings on the crank. They have loose needle bearings around the wrist pin.

Roy

Thanks,

Trying to piece together what all i'll need , and it doesn't seem as easy to find parts and info on the parts as i'm used to in the car motor world.

I figured even though they were"lightweight" pistons, at 440gm they would still hold up. Granted, i don't know what a stock piston weighs off the top of my head, but being heavier than my 380gm diamonds i knew they couldn't be too thin. I know to light and it's a drag only style piston that won't take much abuse before melting,


I guess in my googling around i haven't found a good online supply house yet for this type of stuff but it seems everyplace just has one or two things, or at least only advertise a few.

 

[whipper]

Check out Glen Rynolds new pistons. He has good results from what ive been told with those also. http://reynoldsracingmarine.com/1piston.htm

 

[dragmerc]

who's making those for glen?
sounds like they're forged. is .008" clearance ok for steel bore?

 

[h2oskiier30]

sounds like they're forged. is .008" clearance ok for steel bore?

For any forged piston in a steel sleeved block, I'd send the block to Ruck to have it clearanced. Cheap insurance, IYAM.

 

[suicidealli]

Yes the clearance is different for forged pistons... Usually work out better in a used steel sleeve motor that has a little wear. I think the stock weight is just a touch over 500 g. Stock pins are close to 100 g. Light pins are 75 g.
I have seen pistons, and pins cut so much, they are 420 g with pins.
Glens piston is a weisco side pin piston.
Ruck know these motors as good as anyone. His finish hone is always within 1/2 thous. Great machinist.

Roy

 

[90 5.0]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere with the rings i have seen for sale etc, are the rings file fit on these style motors? I don't know expansion rates for these..

If so what's a good gap for a pump gas motor, i have 130ish comp on all cylinders last time i checked a few weeks back, heads are cut a little.

Don't know yet if i want to cut some more to get 140 or so, I think i've read 145 is as high as you should go on a pump gas motor. Or just leave the heads like they are instead of pushing it..

 

[suicidealli]

Ruck sells wizard pistons. The rings are very close from what I have found. Going from memory I think the ring gap 14-16 thous. I have had to work the ring gap very little. Unless I go back with a slightly smaller bore. 140 lbs comp is fine, and extra room for error. I like 150, on a promax and use aces for my cushion. Which hydromotive sells.

Roy

 

[jay j]

Hey Roy I have been playing with a Pro Stock motor on my little hydrosteam and it is really amazing at how these motors perform stock. They leave like a 280 and start going soft in the mis to upper 7's and depending on what you are doing u can increase or decrease that. Mine is turning in the low 8 range now but I have no A6 and dealing with a stock a63. Pull fuel pressure off and turn the box down. A stock 200 with the 40amp electrics and fuel system will not even be close. Larry Dominique has helped me as has Johnnyracer and this is my 3rd pro stock motor. It takes a little time but little money. You can buy these in the 2k range for a rotator with the good styuff in it, or do it yourself. Dez nuts on scream and fly has a couple blocks in the 300 dollar range so there ya go. I am playin on the river with mine and brag draggin a little, but they can open a few eyes, lol. get ya one, me an johnny will help on the curve.

 

[suicidealli]

I been wanting one.. I talk to John all the time, he said he was close on a fuel curve. I gave up, I figure one will show up now.lol. They can run great set up correctly!!!!!!!!!! Hot little motors with a modified fuel curve, and set up....

Roy