Piston's!!!

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pirogue

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I'd like to open a discusion on piston's. I'm not good on writing so bear with me, it will probably be short as well as very lil expirience.

First off, Lou I'm sorry about your engine that sucks.

Dean Pink make's a great piston IMHO. I ran his pistons one season and felt they were fast durable and light right of the shelf, bought them from JSRE(they are other vendors). I turned that motor 10,500 regularly, and 10,800 once. They are fairly cheap and i didn't have a real hard time getting them, and i will continue to run them when i assemble the drag back.

New Mahle piston's. I ran them in the 04 season and they cracked on me, same rpm's as above. they are light, fast, and crappy. I'm told with tight clearance they will survive a 10,700 motor, i've seen it done. I will not put these back in my motors turning 10k plus rpms, on a lower rpm motor they are probably a good choice.

Mercury Wiseco's, is a good high dollar piston. I'll leave it at that.

Vertex piston's. Some of you don't follow racing but i do and can tell you even though i never run them, they are a favorite with racers in prostock class. These are motors turning cast pistons into the 9k rpm range with 155#'s compression and living to see the start of next year's first race. How long they last you would have to ask somone that's been running them. For the price of these piston's they are hard to beat.

Pro Marine piston's. I run these in my prostock powerhead and never had a piston failure yet turning 8700 and once 9000. These are another good option on a low rpm motor. Cheap and easy to setup. Great fishing motor piston's.

Wiseco piston's. OUCH! very particular, like a beautiful high dollar woman. stay away! i ran these also on a modified 200pm. They did good on a one piece plate on my stv. I ran 113mph pretty far and it lived. I put the powerhead on a 2 piece plate on my xb2002 and burnt a piston on the very first wot run. I burnt about 4 of them on that setup. Not a good choice, but i'm sure everyone know's that.

Well there it is boy's just a coonass's expirience and lil one at that, so let's hear what everyone has to say, and hope we can keep from blowing motors.
 

Scott in MN

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Craig, which rings did you run on the mahle's and which rings on the wizards. Incidentally, I believe wiseco makes the wizard piston.
 

pirogue

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on the mahle's i ran both do to hangin a ring in #6, so i tried the titaniums. on the wizards i ran chrome one's.
 

Myron

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I have a set of wizards in my 280 with the chrome rings in it, so far so good. The ti rings are to good, what I mean is the ring does not wear out, it wears out the bore, which is why I had to have my block redone. I to have used the pro marine pistons in a pro max I built about 6 years ago and it is still running good, although I did have them cryoed.
 

Scott in MN

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Myron, you ran a set of wizards w/ the Ti rings and it wiped out the nic in your motor? I know the mahle with the ceramic rings are an issue on a nic bore but I am running wizards with the Ti rings now and have no problems yet but I only have 2 race weekends and about 6 extra hours on it. How many hrs did it take before your nic was junk and what did the bore look like?
 

Myron

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no the stock pistons with the stock rings wore the bores out, the JSRE pistons are the wizard pistons, one in the same Jay is a distrbuter for them, that is where I got mine
 
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The Mercury rings and the Wizard rings are not interchangable, the thickness and/or taper is different, even though the are both a Wiseco forging. This was done as a legality issue. Also, it is recommended that the Ti rings should only be used on a block with fresh nikisil and diamond hone and that the chrome rings be used on rehone/rebuild new pistons or rehone/rering. This was how I understood it from Dean(Wizard). I have not had any issues with the Wizard piston or his chrome ring in the several motors I have put them in. Also curious if there has been any issues with the Mahles since their latest release of pistons. I know they were cracking them at high RPMs when they came out again a few years ago, but have been told now that that has been taken care of. Is this true?
Nick.
 

NoviceDave

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Are these other pistons (Wizard, Pro Marine, etc.) balanced out of the box? Are you guys running them at these RPMs (10K) right out of the box?

I had my pistons top-pinned by John Marles for my rebuild a couple of years ago. I've had no problems with them and John was good to work with. That is why I am a little surprised by his reaction to Lou's post. But that is another topic. I am debating having my pistons lightened and balanced when I replace the rings in a year or two. After reading about these other pistons I am wondering whether it might be better for me to replace my current pistons with one of these other options. I'm trying to get a reliable (I know that is relative) fishing 280 that will turn 8500 (modified ECU and 1" intake spacer are the only mods I will have) on rare occassion. 90% of this engines life will be spent between 4K and 6K with occassional blasts up to WOT. Any information you can give would be appreciated.

Thx,
NoviceDave
 

Myron

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after what I went thru with my 280 I don't think I would put the Ti rings in any motor, when I pulled it appart the bores from the exhaust port up was egged and you could feel the groove from the upward thrust of the piston, also the wizard pistons have a different cam profile from the Mercury piston
 

CHRIS IND

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I know people that had trouble with new Mahles this season. The problem wasn't with the piston, rather it was with the rings. They have/had a ceramic coating that wasn't compatible with Nicom. It seams they were tested with Nicasil without problems but left galling (micro-welding) in Nicom bores. Nicasil is illegal to apply in the US due to EPA regs. Don't know if that's been resolved yet or not.

Some other information I got (from a VERY good source) was that the Wizard pistons showed skirt collapse in F1 racing. In one race, the Wizards showed three times the amount of skirt collapse than factory Merc forged pistons did in several races. The Wizards have material removed for lightening in the skirts.

Two ring pistons do hold better leakdown numbers for more hours. It's because the second ring can continue to seal even when the top ring is worn and sharp. The top ring can start to do damage to the bore before it shows up on compression or leak down test. Guys with good leakdown and lots of hours are finding re-nic necessary at rebuild time.

Chris
 
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white03

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I'm with NoviceDave..same motor and same useage characteristics..also a novice:smile

Looking for the answer to the question he asked??

What say you guys, which piston on a 280 fishin motor???

Thanx Bill
 

CHRIS IND

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IMO, Stock, factory Merc forged top pinned pistons with TiN coated factory rings. The TiN (Titanium Nitride) coating is to improve lubricity and aid break in.
 

pirogue

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Thank's for all the comment's guy's! i think it's good info. also ditto on what Chris said. mercs are great piston's right out of box, for race reason's i will still go back with wizards.
 

pirogue

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For fishing motor use, wizard piston's would be a great choice also, plus your supporting people who support us, where is mercury supporting us now:(
 

2fast4mom

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IMHO stock Mercury top-pin piston on a 280 fishing motor is the ONLY opinion....LOL
 

froggy

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When I rebuild my, fishing, 280 I will definitely go with the Dean Pink (Wizard) pistons and chrome rings. 1. The rings actually fit the lands 2. Fair price 3. Real world success

I think that I will be able to go many more hours between re-ringing as long as nothing else comes loose.

Just my $.02, based on more and more successful installs.

Guys, thanks for taking the time to detail your, personal, experiences!

froggy
 

pirogue

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I'm on the tug boat now and have one of Dean's piston with me but no camera. i will drop it off to the guy that made (50+)10,700rpm passes on his new mahle piston's with tight clrn. He is ready for a new set of piston's for his back up motor(which i ran in 1400 and got a conservative 3rd place) and will make a decision to go with either mahle's again or Dean's piston's.

He will be taking the motor down soon to find out if their is any harm to those pistons or cyl.

When i get home, i will take pics of all the different set's of pistons which is about 5, with weight and deminsions. i will try to look in my logs and see how many passes or hours i have on each set.
 
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