new consumer 200XS?

[Lotus 50]

Do you think it will happen? I pulled the following from SnF

"Getting the proper motor package for the new XR2002 and all light weight 18-21' boats out there needing re-powered is a campaign that everyone on this website, and others, will need, and get a chance to be involved in. I am soliciting help from Greg and have not heard back from him yet but I am sure I will. It can happen, not saying it will, but we will need to throw everything we have at it. The parts and pieces are available. No engineering really needed. Maybe some badging/stickers. We need a 200XS consumer motor with Sportmaster, solid mounts, 3 year warranty in 20" and 15" versions. Mercury is listening. Darris is OK with 435 lbs."

Maybe I should have bought Dave's 200XS ROS when he had it for sale here last year. I didn't have enough $US and it just bugs me to convert $Cdn back to $US. I get paid in $US and lose 2% going each way.

Maybe I should have bought the 200XS that MXZX bought. My mechanic friend told me not to.

A green motor will never make economic sense. I can keep buying gas for my old 225 PM. I'd just like to be able to cross a big lake without jerry cans.

 

[michael j giesler]

If there is a demand they will build it

 

[xb03fs]

They need to get the hp and price to match a 225/250 xs. A little warranty would hurt either. They can't have less hp and no warranty and cost 4-5k more and expect people to buy them. You can even buy a 300xs for less... Mercury doesn't want to built does
Everything they can to make them less desirable

 

[xb03fs]

The 2.5 liter is more fuel efficient than the 3 liters below 6000 rpms and probably very similar at WOT. A year ago I was really looking into it because I rarely go really fast...they will not put one on a 20" leg and they will not give you an estimated HP, people claim Hp all over the map.. supposedly the ones 2005 and older were fairly weaker (similar to a real 200 220 ish but on a 20" leg), the 2006 one on is supposedly to be stronger (2.5XS is closer to a 225 promax but not quite but on a 3 liter leg with a 3 liter sportmaster and a bigger weight penatly ) and the 2007 and newer are race on 15" or 12".........with the same HP.

If it was on a 20" leg, and guaranteed to be stronger than my current motor I would really consider one...being I have a SVS and a raised limiter on my 200 they were not sure if it would be stronger......

I suspect they can make them stronger but wont because the race teams that buy them require them to be badged 200's and they cant be too far over the 200 HP threshold. If only the race teams would accept 225's they could probably make them stronger.......the compressor eats some HP so they can never make the same HP as a 280 but they should be able to make more.

 

[Dave Hensley]

The post Lotus 50 quoted was mine. I had a long talk with Darris and he is supporting the effort with information and names inside of Mercury. We are trying to figure out the best strategy to advance the idea to Mercury. Forums are great but for every positive there is someone out there that wants to kill an idea. I can post the entire letter here but what is needed is at least 1000 people to respond to Mercury on the subject. This is not just an Allison issue but an effort that hits home to many enthusiasts with solid boats in the 18-21' range that would like to re-power. The used 260/280/300 parts are being re-circulated to the point of being non-serviceable. I am open to recommendations on path forward.

 

[xb03fs]

All they need to do is be reasonable.

Give us 2 years of warranty with the option to buy 2 more like the 250 and 300 xs

If it has more hp than a 250 price of higher if it has less price it the same or lower

If they can get get 245 hp like a promax label it a 225 and let us have it. If they keep it as a 200 legally they can't give us 245. I'd rather it be a 250 with 270 hp like the 250 xs though

I am close to being able to get a new Motor and I keep hoping for something good to come out. I need at least 25 more hp than I have now to get excited about it though

 

[Dave Hensley]

Looking at $15K vs $23K for a 200XS ROS Vs $16K for a 250XS Sport. Not cheap but right sized for our boats. Probably 435 pounds in a 20". Merc needs to lighten their 15" mid but if that was used you are looking at $450 pounds and another $2K. We are talking a 200XS, solid mounts, 6750 limiter and a Sportmaster case. They have the parts all they need to do is package it. I know where 12 can be sold right now but need a mass mailing to Merc to get their attention. Can't hurt. Darris has their ear but even though he is a builder he is just one voice. I owned a 200XS ROS and I can tell you it was sweet. If they use up the 15% above rated HP you are looking at 230 HP. After warranty, one year most likely, runs out get the ECM re-curved and 260-270 HP is possible. These will not be 10,000 rpm motors.

 

[xb03fs]

230 isn't enough HP for my 21. I probably have close to that currently with the mods I have done to my 200 XRI. I LOVE the way it handles with a my current 2.5 but I want to be able to run at least 85 with a partner..that will required 240/250 HP like the 225 proxs 6700/6800 rpms is fine that is all I spin now. They defiantly are more fuel efficient cruising than the 3 liters and may be similar or better at WOT as well...They need to drop the 200 and 225 proxs and add this in as a "fuel economy" model. Under 5000 rpms its probably as frugal as a 175 proxs

FYI I am 12 months from being able to ideally make a purchase.

 

[Lotus 50]

Count 13 can be sold right now. I have the money set aside in $US in case the unicorn appears. Put my brother down for maybe. Thanks for posting Dave. I was pretty sure it was you on S&F, but did not want to hijack the thread there.

 

[Dave Hensley]

I will post the letter to Mercury and the email address to send it to. Copy and edit leaving the technical side intact but ad your own points of personal need. The more the better. I will also post on Fbook to Allison groups, Allison owners and High Performance Boats. Again, Darris called the specs and he is wanting to build a special boat to package the motor. He also likes that motor for the XB21. I will start a separate thread titled New Power for Great Boats.

 

[XB03AllyProud]

Dave, what's the best address/email to flood for those of us interested in writing Mother Merc?

 

[Dave Hensley]

I will post my letter and the name. Again, cut, paste, edit as you see fit. Darris is pushing the following:
1. 2.5 liter 200 hp. If Merc uses the 15% lee way over advertised HP that would be around 230 hp.

2. Solid motor mounts

3. Sportmaster lower

4. 435 pounds

5. Minimum one year warranty.

6. Available in 20" and 15" models

7. Cost comparable to 250 XS Sport or less.

This should be the backbone of any letter(s) sent.

 

[XB03AllyProud]

That would be a great platform for us to have for new motor repower for sure. One would think there would be several thousand people out there that would jump on it immediately if available. And the ones that wouldn't or couldn't when first available buy new, it would give some fresh supply to the used market in a short time later as well.

 

[Dave Hensley]

This site is giving me problems trying to post the letter I sent. It is up on Scream and Fly in the Low Emmission Outboard threads.
Is there a character limit here?

 

[GotMyAlly]

230 isn't enough HP for my 21. I probably have close to that currently with the mods I have done to my 200 XRI. I LOVE the way it handles with a my current 2.5 but I want to be able to run at least 85 with a partner..that will required 240/250 HP like the 225 proxs 6700/6800 rpms is fine that is all I spin now. They defiantly are more fuel efficient cruising than the 3 liters and may be similar or better at WOT as well...They need to drop the 200 and 225 proxs and add this in as a "fuel economy" model. Under 5000 rpms its probably as frugal as a 175 proxs

I don't think it's the added HP of the 3.0L 225 ProXS that makes it run like it does (on a 21).....it's the torque. But a 200XS would be sweet on a XR02......however, i bet most people seriously considering plopping down cash on new XR02 probably want 260/280 performance.

 

[Lotus 50]

I thought those other boats, Triton, Ranger, etc. ran fine with the big DI motors. Why put a small block 200-220 HP motor on a boat when it could use a big block 225-250?

For my brother and I, the small block is needed. I've got an SS2000 and can't imagine my 1993 Promax lasting 20 more years. My brother is buying a new 18' Charger (6/7 scale 21 Challenger) and those are known to porpoise with big blocks.

 

[GotMyAlly]

I thought those other boats, Triton, Ranger, etc. ran fine with the big DI motors. Why put a small block 200-220 HP motor on a boat when it could use a big block 225-250?

They do. On the 20'+ boats, the 3.0L DI motors are perfect because those heavy tubs need the torque.
I can see the 200XS being a viable alternative to a 175 ProXS on a 19' boat from any of those other manufacturers, but that's a small market too and I don't think it's going to replace the 3.0L motors on the bigger boats.

 

[Dave Hensley]

I don't recall many boat builders that factory rigged HP stuff--ever. Is this niche market big enough to sell a profitable amount of motors? The pitch should be made to Merc on the basis of profitability. "Here's the extra units you will sell and the extra profit you will earn." --and not, "I'm stuck in Tuscaloosa with no motor, won't you please help me. Post a loss for me?" Merc's response, "You bet, we are really really into taking losses."

Contrary to today's zeitgeist, the main goal of any corporation is to maximize shareholder wealth (usually via profits) and not employing people, being green, taking losses for any reason, etc. (although it may put up that facade).

Start counting the number of Allison's, STV's, Triad's, Strokers, Bullets etc that are being sold without power because everyone, including me, is hoarding 2.5 stuff. It is not just the "new" boat market. This is not a re-tooled motor. They make everything it takes to bolt one together now, and it is EPA compliant already. Wonder what a 175 XS with 200 XS ROS box makes on the dyno????/ Hello?? Package it with a Sportmaster, solid mounts and give a warranty. Ask FastEdddie what they will run and he had to buy one and go through all the work on a brand new motor to get there. I am talking about a set of decals here guys and a trip to another parts bin at the factory. Does anyone remember what a 225 Pro Max was???? Steel liner, Laser injection, Sportmaster, Solid mounts, Cowl?? It was a fishing motor. The HP can all be done in the ECM.