GS Setup

[sledman8002002]

Might as well get things rolling and start making real notes before season comes...
'95 GrandSport, '86 2.4 200, boxes and oil injection removed, CLE 4 hole LU. Boat's got the factory Allison manual 9" JP.
I've read many, many posts on what's what along with a lot of help and info from Xsive and here's what I'm thinking as my starting point.
I have a pair of 2" alum setback spacers which I want to install to the JP for 11" total. Set the motor at 3/8" below the pad and go from there. Thoughts?
The motor will be fresh once installed and yes I do understand the blowout concerns of the CLE at 90 and above. However, for now I highly doubt the 2.4 will take me above 85 mph. But maybe I'm being conservative? (As a side-note I do have a SpeedMaster sitting on the sidelines once I'm done testing the CLE)
Normally I'd be weighing in around 220, but 230 at the moment. I do have some lead bags from previous owner which were right at the back seat and a bit ahead.
Am I far off in my initial setup? All thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

 

[Jon]

I'm running a 05 200XS Opti at 9" setback and 1/2" below with a 3 hole sportmaster and a 4 blade 27 trophy allison cut. Long sentence... I know. I can switch my spacer back one set of holes and get 10", but I'm hitting close to the rev limiter, and using merc's slip calc, I'm hitting the top speed that I should be hitting, which is 87mph with my setup.

As you said, just watch your water pressure with the CLE above 90... and a 2.4 can get some boats up to at least 129mph . Do let us know what you think of the setup.

Has your boat had any pad/lip work done?

 

[sledman8002002]

Hmmm, perhaps I should start at 1/2" below then. No, the pad/lip is untouched as far as I know/been told and can tell.
I've 7 props to choose from at this point, from a 23 thru hub cleaver, a 24 chopper, 25 QS, 26 Trophy Plus to 3 different 28's. The motor seemed to be quite happy spinning 6200.

Just to add, I made my first call to the Allison HQ today and ordered up a skid planer (16") and their planning foil from Bill.

 

[whipper]

Im the same weight as you. Ive tryed 9,10,11,12 and 14 setback. I like 11 or 12 best for all round with the 225pm. At 11 for the past year. The hole shot was a little better closer and top speed wasn't to bad either. i wouldn't change anything until I tryed were your at first. Then when you change something you will no the difference. Never tryed the skid planner but want to and I wont run without my foil after trying with and without. With the battery and around 45 lbs of lead shot you will be balanced well. If your not you can bring a couple 5 lb dumbbells along and try them adding one at a time to see if you might need a little more. The other one or two stick under the center seat so it doesnt effect balance while you test. i turned my seat base side ways to be able to adjust balance better with less counter. i was able to ditch 30 lbs of counter. Its great for adjusting for passengers also. I just slide it to the left until Im ballanced with a passenger. before I had to move one lead shot over to the other side. The 25 pitch will be your friend. Thats my Favourite pitch. i finally found a 28 thats great out of the hole now almost as good as my 25 trophy. Though Im still partial to the 25 for the most part. I run even with the pad most of time now. i run 1/4 above some times depending on the prop. Trophy's like 1/4 bellow I find pluss that makes them a little less substitutable to slinging a blade ive been told and mines 10 years old now and been on the most. The 28 drag3 likes hight alot. Even to 1/4 above. Stick to no higher than 1/4 below for the first year as you really shouldn't need to run any higher. It took me a few years untill i was comfortable knowing the hull to run any higher than that. When I compared top speeds to blow out at different heights with the same prop the extra hight wasnt worth the risk for the difference in top speed from 1/4 bellow every 1/4 inch to 1 above. at one above some props actually lost speed because blow out would happen early with some props.

I always have a pencil and a note pad that stays in the boat. When Im testing stuff i write down the results so I know what worked best. Weather its props,gearcase hight,oil mix,fuel to acu adjustments ect... That way when i put on the trophy I set the motor to 1/4 below and now i can trim till around 85-87 mph for instance depending on the day. Then if i have my 28 drag3 on I set the motor to even and I know im good to 90 but if its a cool calm day I might trim to 92-93 with light fuel. Theres so many different combos to try its nice to have a bench mark. The risky part is finding those bench marks for the first time. i find as you said those prop calculators work good for starters. i always use 8% slip with pitch and rpm and feel it out as I drive as get close to were that says I should be able to run I use caution. If i cant get there i might try another 1/4 inch. If I cant get there still i sell the prop.:big grin

 

[sledman8002002]

Im the same weight as you. Ive tryed 9,10,11,12 and 14 setback. I like 11 or 12 best for all round with the 225pm. At 11 for the past year. The hole shot was a little better closer and top speed wasn't to bad either. i wouldn't change anything until I tryed were your at first. Then when you change something you will no the difference. Never tryed the skid planner but want to and I wont run without my foil after trying with and without. With the battery and around 45 lbs of lead shot you will be balanced well. If your not you can bring a couple 5 lb dumbbells along and try them adding one at a time to see if you might need a little more. The other one or two stick under the center seat so it doesnt effect balance while you test. i turned my seat base side ways to be able to adjust balance better with less counter. i was able to ditch 30 lbs of counter. Its great for adjusting for passengers also. I just slide it to the left until Im ballanced with a passenger. before I had to move one lead shot over to the other side. The 25 pitch will be your friend. Thats my Favourite pitch. i finally found a 28 thats great out of the hole now almost as good as my 25 trophy. Though Im still partial to the 25 for the most part. I run even with the pad most of time now. i run 1/4 above some times depending on the prop. Trophy's like 1/4 bellow I find pluss that makes them a little less substitutable to slinging a blade ive been told and mines 10 years old now and been on the most. The 28 drag3 likes hight alot. Even to 1/4 above. Stick to no higher than 1/4 below for the first year as you really shouldn't need to run any higher. It took me a few years untill i was comfortable knowing the hull to run any higher than that. When I compared top speeds to blow out at different heights with the same prop the extra hight wasnt worth the risk for the difference in top speed from 1/4 bellow every 1/4 inch to 1 above. at one above some props actually lost speed because blow out would happen early with some props.

I always have a pencil and a note pad that stays in the boat. When Im testing stuff i write down the results so I know what worked best. Weather its props,gearcase hight,oil mix,fuel to acu adjustments ect... That way when i put on the trophy I set the motor to 1/4 below and now i can trim till around 85-87 mph for instance depending on the day. Then if i have my 28 drag3 on I set the motor to even and I know im good to 90 but if its a cool calm day I might trim to 92-93 with light fuel. Theres so many different combos to try its nice to have a bench mark. The risky part is finding those bench marks for the first time. i find as you said those prop calculators work good for starters. i always use 8% slip with pitch and rpm and feel it out as I drive as get close to were that says I should be able to run I use caution. If i cant get there i might try another 1/4 inch. If I cant get there still i sell the prop.:big grin

That's the 2nd time I've read of turning the seat base. Great idea, I like it. Now on 'the list'.
I've been wondering what/where you fella's did with the moveable weights once the passengers come aboard. Good stuff.
I concur with you about finding the benchmark, I also agree with you about the 25. To date it has been my benchmark prop and it'll be first in the water for this season too. I have a feeling it may really like the 26 Trophy. I also have a 28 Trophy Plus to spin as well. Like you said, same for me, whatever props don't work will be sold.

(Might be a well known fact out here?), but while talking with Bill at Allison yesterday, he mentioned that each revolution of the adjustment nut on the JP is equivalent to 1/11" of movement. So, just shy of 1/8" per turn. I'll be double checking it come Spring, but nice fact to know. I'm looking forward to getting to work on this and getting the beach balls outta my garage and in the JP where they belong :big grin

Question about fuel quantity...How much bearing does the fuel capacity have in how the GS rides/handles/top speed? My meaning, does it alter or change the boats characteristics by a whole lot or is it minimal?

 

[Jon]

The fuel tank sits right at the pivot point/center of gravity for the boat if it is set up correctly (setback vs weight of you vs the motor). I notice almost no difference except in hole shot with an empty tank. I can hit basically top speed either way... maybe I can squeeze a little more out if it were really empty, but it hasn't mattered so far. I've only had the boat out 50x or so though, so I'm still learning

 

[sledman8002002]

OK, thanks Jon

 

[whipper]

Ya solo you know you have a full tank but no big deal. Start adding passengers and it all adds up with 225 or less power. One passenger thats 200 lbs or less is still decent for high 80,s with a 225. Made it to 91 a few times when the motor was fresh with full fuel . 2 or passangers you cant wait to drop them off and go for a rip..:big grin Your still faster than 90+ % of the boats on the lake just not lightning quick. When loaded down I take my time. Trim and wait for the speed to come. So much slower to speed its easy to get over eager with the trim and loose were your at with it. Thats the #1 rule with an Allison. Always know were your at for trim and motor hight!!! Cant stress enough. Solo its way easier to know. With passengers you will still get way up in the speed it just takes way longer in between bumps. You have to let it reach a speed before you bump again. {to be safe}.

With one passenger its almost the same as solo. what you will get to know is the 60-65mph mark. thats were the hull climbs up on the pad. You will feel when you have to trim at that point. if you dont have enough trim the nose feels heavy like its plowing because the arse end is rising. You give her a couple bumps and the bow comes up and you take off to 75 instantly. Then with your foot still to the floor you bump wait bump wait untill reach top speed. Your foot is always to the floor above 65. The speed comes from trim on the way up. were ever you stop trimming will dictate your speed. Its not like your cruising at 80 then to go 90 you step on the gas more. Thats why knowing were your at with trim is so important. if your over trimmed to early and speed is climbing you might risk going past the speed were your setups max safe speed is. You climb so high on the pad that the prop breaks the surface and thats not any fun at all..:big grin

 

[sledman8002002]

With one passenger its almost the same as solo. what you will get to know is the 60-65mph mark. thats were the hull climbs up on the pad. You will feel when you have to trim at that point. if you dont have enough trim the nose feels heavy like its plowing because the arse end is rising. You give her a couple bumps and the bow comes up and you take off to 75 instantly. Then with your foot still to the floor you bump wait bump wait untill reach top speed. Your foot is always to the floor above 65. The speed comes from trim on the way up. were ever you stop trimming will dictate your speed. Its not like your cruising at 80 then to go 90 you step on the gas more. Thats why knowing were your at with trim is so important. if your over trimmed to early and speed is climbing you might risk going past the speed were your setups max safe speed is. You climb so high on the pad that the prop breaks the surface and thats not any fun at all..:big grin

Something is telling me these are some of the best tips & explanations one could hear on running up to speed. :beer:

 

[whipper]

Well 5 people can say the same thing 5 different ways but they will pretty much mean the same thing. Take the way that you understand the most. Most guys on hear wont steer you in the wrong direction on purpose. We are all hear for the same reason and we all had the same questions before. i asked a million question before i could drive mine on the pad. We all want everyone to be safe and learn to drive Allison's to there full potential or know one will buy our beloved boats and this forum wouldn't exist. Its nice to see so many new owners this year. Hears another tid bit. If you see a wake board boat on the lake, know that there wakes last forever and could be anywhere as you drive fast. There wakes are your enemy and you need to pick and choose were and when to open her up and when let off. Cross one of those rollers above 70 and it might ruin your day or stain your seats at the very least.:big grin

 

[Jon]

Whipper nailed it on everything. He's right that adding any people makes the boat run totally different. I can run 87.x wide open solo, and only 82 with 400 extra lbs of peeps in the boat.

I know the first time I got the GS up on the pad, it felt like when you're sitting on a rolling stool in the shop and someone kicks it out from under you. I never get that sensation any more because I'm expecting the speed jump, but it was fun the first time

 

[Lotus 50]

Hmm. I cruise around in the 70s far from WOT, but maybe I'll try foot to the floor with less trim and work up.

The red book says 80 or 85 is as fast as you can go with a CLE. My red book is in my boat 5 hours away, so I can't look it up.

 

[sledman8002002]

Hmm. I cruise around in the 70s far from WOT, but maybe I'll try foot to the floor with less trim and work up.

The red book says 80 or 85 is as fast as you can go with a CLE. My red book is in my boat 5 hours away, so I can't look it up.

Are you using a CLE as well Lotus?

 

[xb03fs]

Something is telling me these are some of the best tips & explanations one could hear on running up to speed. :beer:

You are correct whipper explained it very well..... Once you get the hang of it youwant even need a trim guage just feel. My trim guage has been broke for a few years and I only miss it when trying to set the motor for best holesshot and trimming when pulling a skier to flatten the wake... Well I don't need it but it's hard to tell other driver where to trim it to flatten the wake for me skiing when there isn't a guage

 

[sledman8002002]

You are correct whipper explained it very well..... Once you get the hang of it youwant even need a trim guage just feel. My trim guage has been broke for a few years and I only miss it when trying to set the motor for best holesshot and trimming when pulling a skier to flatten the wake... Well I don't need it but it's hard to tell other driver where to trim it to flatten the wake for me skiing when there isn't a guage

I agree xb, I'm not a fan of watching the trim gauge either. BUT, I am thinking about perhaps putting one of the mechanical ones from Jay Smith on tho. Anyone running one?

 

[fnshrmaster]

I agree xb, I'm not a fan of watching the trim gauge either. BUT, I am thinking about perhaps putting one of the mechanical ones from Jay Smith on tho. Anyone running one?

They are nice to have. I think mine is from stainless marine.

 

[Lotus 50]

I have a coned CLE. I ran it one season without the cone and kept it below 80. No trim gage, which is fine solo and with 4 in the boat. With two up front, the bow runs a lot lower and I worry about over trimming.

 

[sledman8002002]

OK, thank you both.

 

[xb03fs]

They are nice to have. I think mine is from stainless marine.

Would be nice for sure because trimmed too for down and holeshot is slower because the motor dosent trim fast enough to keep the nose up, and too for up and the nose comes up too high on takeoff or will blow out too much... A trim gauge would be nice for holeshot for sure...

 

[whipper]

I really want to feel that stall or speed stop with my foot to the floor before I hit 80. if i pass 80 from 40 or 50 without needing a bump ill back off because I would be lost were my trim is it becomes more risky. Generally Ill start the re-bumps from the old standard getting up on the pad spot at 65. Then you know for sure were your at on the way up. drag racing you would loose to much time doing this. But for recreational boating or with a passenger especially this is my safe bet. Old standby way.:big grin

On the trim gauge thing? Im not so sure I would like to rely on something to know were Im at? Never tried one but lots of guys use one. Every prop and condition is different. So to say oh i can run up to this spot on the gage i did it yesterday may not be the same the next day even with the same prop. My rule is if the rpm changed and the MPH didn't or went down im done. Every single bump should be an increase in speed. So when I bump and there's not so much as a .2mph then i know for this prop on that run and day shes done. I might try moving the motor higher and see if theres 1 more MPH or not. Thats my gage.

I might add I have not had a blow out or hook ever since I started doing it this way. You need a digital gps to do it more safer, the speedo is not accurate enough to ride that edge.