And they say Allys are expensive......

[Alli-drenaline Rush]

You guy's are just making wild statements with psyco commentary...

Bravo!

 

[Alli-drenaline Rush]

You are dead on about the diesel trucks. One of my very best friends bought a brand new 2011 loaded out duramax. A very nice truck that was bought with cash and drove it for 4 months and when it never got better than 13.5 mpg he had enough and ripped all the exhaust, factory ecu, injectors, and put on all the after market race stuff, and now averages 26. I wounder if the EPA has figured out what creates more actual pollution. The diesel trucks getting 26 mpg's or the drilling Riggs and refineries having to produce double the amount for each vehicle? I don't know the answer.

Hmmmm I like the logic of one of my esteemed colleagues who states that his Prius is superior to my Dodge 3500 4x4 CTD because it gets 50 mpg (and my diesel 6800 lb truck only gets 25 with road tires). What he so conveniently forgets is that on a cradle-to-grave basis I would bet a dollar-to-a-donut that my truck will last 4 times as long as his Prius (with the attendant reduction in CO2 emissions from the reduced number of vehicles produced, shipped to dealerships and marketed to customers), and not even need to take a debit on the incredibly polluting nature of the electric car battery manufacturing process.....

http://www.hybridcars.com/battery-toxicity.html

Reads like green cars aren't quite so green......



But the sound bite is nice ("I drive a Prius").....


Roy where's my pie LOL!!!!!

 

[K.Kiser]

and not even need to take a debit on the incredibly polluting nature of the electric car battery manufacturing process.....!!!

Alot of people are unaware of how alot of our electricity is produced --- coal and lots of it...

 

[Speedman]

My 94 xb02 was 13k when I bought it a year old, I have the original bill of sale for 18,500 with no motor. Iblew the first motor after a couple of years and opted for a 97 225 promax which I paid 10k for so at 4 years old, I had 23k into it in 1997! I think Rangers were in the 40's then? But flash forward 18 years later and I still get looks and have NEVER been beaten in a drag race in a tourney! Some folks baby their boats, washing and waxing and buffing, NOT ME! I waxed it maybe twice in 15years, ran it in mud, snow, brackishi water, all I ever did was wipe it down or hose it off. Well life has changed for me and I have not used the boat in 2 years. I actually had it professionally detailed for the FIRST time EVER!, The guy could not believe when I told him how I NEVER waxed or buffed it. He said it was one of the easiest bass boats he ever detailed. He just used some cleaner wax and now the boat at 18 years old, looks like it is brand new! here are some picts:
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o299/GaryP_fishing/Allison xb2002/

the first few are of my Ally and my jet boat then there are picts of my trailer renovation and some winter fishing episodes. If you're board look at some of my other photobucket albums in the winter time, I have never winterized the boat and run through ice sheets on plane and have never put a scratch on the hull! Bet you other A-boat owners didn't know an 02 is also an ice breaker! When the ice is too thick to run through on plane, I power onto the sheet of ice, then 2 of us guys get on the decks and jump up and down to break the ice! LAst year, A friend of mine wrote and article on how we winterizing our rigs, you need to check this out!

http://www.insideline.net/index.php/feature-weather/349-qwinterizeq-your-rig

I'm the guy with the walleye!

point is, people take care of their Ally's or people like me use it to the extreme and it still looks brand new!!! 18 years later.

Funny thing is, I will probably have a tough time selling it this spring for 12k with a rebuilt promax!

 

[Alli-drenaline Rush]

You are dead on about the diesel trucks. One of my very best friends bought a brand new 2011 loaded out duramax. A very nice truck that was bought with cash and drove it for 4 months and when it never got better than 13.5 mpg he had enough and ripped all the exhaust, factory ecu, injectors, and put on all the after market race stuff, and now averages 26. I wounder if the EPA has figured out what creates more actual pollution. The diesel trucks getting 26 mpg's or the drilling Riggs and refineries having to produce double the amount for each vehicle? I don't know the answer.

Sorry it took awhile to respond.....

For talking purposes, let's use California as an example, because they have done a lot of work on their effort to implement cap-and-trade and the Low Carbon Fuel Standard (which was just struck down recently by a Federal judge as a violation of the Commerce clause, as CA sought to regulate ethanol outside its borders)....

Table A in the following link shows that it takes about 274,000 BTU of energy to make 1,000,000 BTU of ultra-low sulfur diesel from an average California crude.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/022709lcfs_ulsd.pdf

BTW - from the GREET pathway document for Brazilian sugar cane ethanol, it takes 1,250,000 BTU to make 1,000,000 BTU of fuel, so 5X more energy than it takes to make the same amount of diesel from a contained energy standpoint.....

The Government of the State of California identified diesel exhaust in 1998 as a toxic air pollutant (http://arb.ca.gov/research/diesel/diesel-health.htm), so they mandate "clean diesel", which evidently reduces fuel mileage... Their priority is to protect the health of the residents of their State (and I can't blame them if their research correctly points to a link between diesel exhaust and the outcomes that they observe)...... so the lesser of the two evils to them is to mandate clean diesel, even though mileage suffers and the operator of the diesel vehicle sees higher fuel costs.....

Finally the GREET pathway shows that it takes about 1,700,000 BTU to make 1,000,000 BTU of corn ethanol (the stuff that is blended now in your gas). Brazilian sugar cane ethanol is a little harder to make and so it is a "second-generation" bio-fuel.... not available on a wide-spread basis at the current time.....

BTW II - there is about 127,464 BTU in a gallon of diesel, 113,300 BTU in a gallon of gasoline (before ethanol addition) and something like 76,330 BTU in a gallon of corn ethanol.... which explains why you have to run so much more ethanol through an engine to get the same energy output (or mileage)...

Now you have the data when someone tells you that corn ethanol takes so much more energy to make than gasoline - it's true!!!!!

One last point - diesel trucks likely produce more PM2.5 (2.5 micron particulate matter - the stuff that the State of California doesn't like) than the fuel burned in the refineries and on the drilling rigs to power the refining and crude production processes, so to answer the original question you could say that diesels are more "polluting" than the entire fuels production value chain on an equivalent energy basis from the PM2.5 and CO2 emissions standpoint, but IMO pollution is a term used quite loosely these days..... taken to its logical extremes one could say that every human on the planet pollutes the atmosphere with the CO2 that we exhale........

 

[suicidealli]

A knew Richard could only hold it in so long!!!!!! It's a damn shame. My suburban is flex fuel. When you do the math it isn't worth buying the ethanol here. The decrease in mpg doesn't outweigh the price cut in ohio with my vehicle....

Roy

 

[patches]

Yeah, what he said. LOL

Cuz just threw some knowledge on us

 

[SLOmofo]

I'm of the opinion Flex Fuel doesn't use either fuel well. It will run on either, but neither well.

http://www.killcarb.org/index.html

 

[Alli-drenaline Rush]

A knew Richard could only hold it in so long!!!!!! It's a damn shame. My suburban is flex fuel. When you do the math it isn't worth buying the ethanol here. The decrease in mpg doesn't outweigh the price cut in ohio with my vehicle....

Roy

LOL you're correct Roy!!!!!!!

I'm going on memory here, but I think that the Federal subsidy for corn ethanol was $0.50/gal..... Now that the gubmint has dropped the ethanol subsidy, expect the economics of flex-fuel to get crappier in the coming months as the un-subsidized EtOH value works it's way through the value chain.....

 

[Alli-drenaline Rush]

I'm of the opinion Flex Fuel doesn't use either fuel well. It will run on either, but neither well.

http://www.killcarb.org/index.html

I stumbled upon this presentation in doing the research for the previous answer...... See the last few slides..... A Federal LCFS does nothing to reduce CO2 emissions - just pushes Canadian oil sands production from the USA to the rest of the world ..... And that was 2009..... The Keystone pipeline decision will do the same thing....... Bye bye jobs and energy security America......

http://www.its.ucdavis.edu/events/outreachevents/asilomar2009/presentations/Session 3/Difiglio_Asilomar_2009.ppt