Where are we guys?

[Cleavor]

As time goes on, our beloved 2 stokes get older and parts harder to find. Mercury Racing has addressed everyone's needs but us Allison owners, although I would worry about some of the other SOBs hanging a 300R on the transom. As our motors become obsolete, what are we to do? Ignore Darris's warning and purchase the 300R? I know some have tried the 300XS, some the Honda's and some the heavier Yamaha's with, from what I can tell, success. Are we reduced to the 175XS? Are our beloved boats destined for the scrape heap? What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

[Lotus 50]

I bought a 200XS ROS and I hope it lasts.

 

[BigRWater]

As time goes on, our beloved 2 stokes get older and parts harder to find. Mercury Racing has addressed everyone's needs but us Allison owners, although I would worry about some of the other SOBs hanging a 300R on the transom. As our motors become obsolete, what are we to do? Ignore Darris's warning and purchase the 300R? I know some have tried the 300XS, some the Honda's and some the heavier Yamaha's with, from what I can tell, success. Are we reduced to the 175XS? Are our beloved boats destined for the scrape heap? What are your thoughts on this subject?

I don't want my XB2003 to be on the scrap heap in the next 10 to 20 years.
How many older 2 stroke motors on motor stands in the garage, and/or power heads does a guy need in reserve to get another 10 years out of his beloved Allison? A guy could consider having the extra motors, power heads and parts, the cost of doing business on the water in an Allison. Maybe?
I know people who paid huge amounts of $ and are making large payments on new Skeeters and other boats, that I know none of us paid that much for our Allisons.
Is it mainly the power head and power head parts that will be the issue going forward?
Are your concerns mainly for guys trying for speed and personal bests?
How bad of a problem is this?
I tried google to understand what a 175XS is... ...google returns the Optimax? Is that the motor your referring to?

 

[Steve B]

If your going to scrap your Allison please let me know.
I have a new SHO Yamaha on my 2001 XB2003 , purchased from a reliable Allison member that has put these motors on a few boats.
505 pounds ,reliable, fuel efficient ,and big power and not a ticking time bomb apparently!
This is all new to me but can't wait till the ice melts to try it out.
I have owed Bass Cats & a Skeeters with a SHO's and never had any motor issues , but I miss my old speed boats.
Hoping the Allison & Yamaha will deliver the whole package.
And yes I have had some time bombs they always blow up when on a vacation and ruin the week.

 

[Cleavor]

I don't want my XB2003 to be on the scrap heap in the next 10 to 20 years.
How many older 2 stroke motors on motor stands in the garage, and/or power heads does a guy need in reserve to get another 10 years out of his beloved Allison? A guy could consider having the extra motors, power heads and parts, the cost of doing business on the water in an Allison. Maybe?
I know people who paid huge amounts of $ and are making large payments on new Skeeters and other boats, that I know none of us paid that much for our Allisons.
Is it mainly the power head and power head parts that will be the issue going forward?
Are your concerns mainly for guys trying for speed and personal bests?
How bad of a problem is this?
I tried google to understand what a 175XS is... ...google returns the Optimax? Is that the motor your referring to?

Yes, I am talking about the 225X, the 260s and 280s. I have a 260 on my GrandSport and my personal best is 103 MPH GPS. I can't get the same performance out of a 175XS. It would be like going from a Ferrari to an Escort.

No, the new 175 Pro XS is a four stroke, 3.4L V-6 that weighs 470 pounds: https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/pro-xs/175-300hp/

 

[Cleavor]

If your going to scrap your Allison please let me know.
I have a new SHO Yamaha on my 2001 XB2003 , purchased from a reliable Allison member that has put these motors on a few boats.
505 pounds ,reliable, fuel efficient ,and big power and not a ticking time bomb apparently!
This is all new to me but can't wait till the ice melts to try it out.
I have owed Bass Cats & a Skeeters with a SHO's and never had any motor issues , but I miss my old speed boats.
Hoping the Allison & Yamaha will deliver the whole package.
And yes I have had some time bombs they always blow up when on a vacation and ruin the week.

No intention of scraping my GrandSport, just wondering everyone's thoughts and plans are on where the future will lead us Allison owners with SS's, GrandSport's, XB 2002's and 2003's. Not really having motor issues other than re-building when my 260 pops and wondering how long parts will be available. I have been keeping my eye on her since the last re-build and plan to do compression and leak down tests this spring. A hone and a re-ring is a hell of a lot cheaper than re-building once she grenade's

I would be very interested in hearing about how your XB2003 handles the weight of the Yamaha, please keep me posted!

I know one person that put a 20 inch 300XS on his GrandSport and says it's fine, that Darris is simply doing a CYA. I have also seen Allisons with Yamaha's, Honda's and Optimax's. However, I am leaning towards a 300R, I like the idea of a new motor with a three year warranty and not having to spend thousands of dollars re-building my 260 every time she blows up.

My other concern about the 300R is that Mercury is recommending these CNC Cleavers that go for over $5k, hard to justify that kind of money for a propeller. Anybody have any experience with this?

 

[Cleavor]

I bought a 200XS ROS and I hope it lasts.

What did you put that 200XS ROS on? How does she perform? I have heard some good things about that motor and you can supposedly buy a brand new one from Dubai for $10k as Mercury apparently still sells new ones overseas.

 

[Lotus 50]

My 200XS is on an SS2000. For me, it’s close enough to the 225 Promax that preceded it. Coming from a 260 it would probably seem weak. My best is 93, but I have not and will not push for the last few mph. Never had the Promax past 91. The 200XS burns way less gas.

 

[Ally-Sun]

I am in the process of switching to a 3L. Not looking to set any speed records given the inherent risk. Yet I am going to love the fuel mileage (twice as much compared to the ProMax), smooth idling through a few recently extended no wake zones, and the added torque. My biggest concern is the non-ratcheting gear case. I never chopped my throttle even with the ProMax. I just have to take my time and feel her out. Thanks to a lot of talks with Scott Harrell and JR in Jax and a few others running 3L's on XB2003's I am happy with my decision. I purchased a 2018 with 2-1/2 years warranty left. With tedious maintenance and care these engines seem to very reliable. With all new wiring, a new remote, and a new fuel system. I am about as close to new as I can get vs buying 4 stroke that's nearly 600 lb. Or a marginal power 150 I would have to install a nosecone on, which voids the warranty.

 

[Lotus 50]

Aeneas got 98 with his 200XS/SS2000

what maintenance should I be doing?

 

[Cleavor]

Great info guys! I didn't realize the new Sport Masters are non-ratcheting and that putting a nosecone on a non- Sporty lower voids your warranty.

Ally-Sun, what horsepower Pro Max XS did you get? It looks SWEET on your boat!

I really like the new 250R and 300R, would love to have one for all the reasons y'all said, warranty, smooth running, better gas mileage, less overall cost when factoring in a blown powerhead.

What is the recommended set-up with these heavier motors, less set back? As I get older, the less I am inclined to push my GrandSport to the limit. I know what she is capable of and cruising the Mississippi river at 70 - 80 MPH with plenty in reserve is good enough for me these days.

 

[Steve B]

The new 4 stroke motors are not that much more in weight, less that one extra person easily!
As much as I want to go fast , big torque up to 80 -90 might be more fun.
There is no replacement for cubic inch displacement

 

[Ally-Sun]

Aeneas got 98 with his 200XS/SS2000

what maintenance should I be doing?

So on mine there is an in-line fuel filter, the main fuel filter in the VST tank, an in-line oil filter, and two in-line compressor oil filters. There is also a strainer in the exhaust divider for the compressor cooling line. Burn good clean fuel and run Quick-Cleen and Quick-Care treatment in every tank. Quick-Stor if she will sit for a while. That's what I have found thus far.

 

[Ally-Sun]

Great info guys! I didn't realize the new Sport Masters are non-ratcheting and that putting a nosecone on a non- Sporty lower voids your warranty.

Ally-Sun, what horsepower Pro Max XS did you get? It looks SWEET on your boat!

I really like the new 250R and 300R, would love to have one for all the reasons y'all said, warranty, smooth running, better gas mileage, less overall cost when factoring in a blown powerhead.

What is the recommended set-up with these heavier motors, less set back? As I get older, the less I am inclined to push my GrandSport to the limit. I know what she is capable of and cruising the Mississippi river at 70 - 80 MPH with plenty in reserve is good enough for me these days.

Thanks Cleavor, I went with the 250 HP. Don't know about the less rebuild costs but I was always taught an ounce of maintenance is worth a ton of repair!

I set mine at 8" a lot of different setups on the XB's I think with the GS it would be best to stay 8 and under. Just my opinion after talking to people and reading a lot.

Have fun and enjoy your ride this summer!

 

[Former Gambler]

I blew my PM225 2 years ago. I considered a new engine at the time. My mechanic suggested to rebuild. He brought up the point that the Optimax line (wanted a 300xs) would be phasing out and I would be in the same situation when Mercury decides to quit making parts for that product line. I was ready to go to a 300R but at that time gear ratio options and lead time on the new engines pushed me into just rebuilding mine. Now I have an engine that is just past break-in and my lower unit failed. Parts are becoming more and more difficult to find. Like everyone else in this situation, I thought the “billet 2.5’s” would be pricey but within reach. From what I see, it’s not an option for the average guy. It also seems like it’s getting to the point that there are plenty of power heads out there but not enough lower units to go around. So what good is a 2.5 power head if you can’t get lowers?
Eventually I will go to the new 4 stroke. I think we all will out of necessity. I like the idea of not mixing fuel anymore and lower octane fuel. I would like to see a 15” mid section on the 300R but just don’t think Mercury would find justification to do it (there are rumors about it though). We haven’t seen anything geared towards this boating community in a long time. Of course, if I’m wishing, the 360 apex with a 15” or 20” mid and Sportmaster would be the stuff. I’m sure the price would be astronomical. Surely, not as much as the new V-12; WTH is that going to go on? Lol!
As it is now, I’ll keep fixing my stuff and run it until something breaks that can’t be replaced. Then I will make the change.
On another note, I noticed that the Formula 60 engine on the Mercury Racing website is made in their “state of the art” facility in China. How long will it be till all the race engines are built there?

 

[Ally-Sun]

I blew my PM225 2 years ago. I considered a new engine at the time. My mechanic suggested to rebuild. He brought up the point that the Optimax line (wanted a 300xs) would be phasing out and I would be in the same situation when Mercury decides to quit making parts for that product line. I was ready to go to a 300R but at that time gear ratio options and lead time on the new engines pushed me into just rebuilding mine. Now I have an engine that is just past break-in and my lower unit failed. Parts are becoming more and more difficult to find. Like everyone else in this situation, I thought the “billet 2.5’s” would be pricey but within reach. From what I see, it’s not an option for the average guy. It also seems like it’s getting to the point that there are plenty of power heads out there but not enough lower units to go around. So what good is a 2.5 power head if you can’t get lowers?
Eventually I will go to the new 4 stroke. I think we all will out of necessity. I like the idea of not mixing fuel anymore and lower octane fuel. I would like to see a 15” mid section on the 300R but just don’t think Mercury would find justification to do it (there are rumors about it though). We haven’t seen anything geared towards this boating community in a long time. Of course, if I’m wishing, the 360 apex with a 15” or 20” mid and Sportmaster would be the stuff. I’m sure the price would be astronomical. Surely, not as much as the new V-12; WTH is that going to go on? Lol!
As it is now, I’ll keep fixing my stuff and run it until something breaks that can’t be replaced. Then I will make the change.
On another note, I noticed that the Formula 60 engine on the Mercury Racing website is made in their “state of the art” facility in China. How long will it be till all the race engines are built there?

Yeah, that was my thought if I can get 5-10 years out of this engine I will be happy. HOPEfully by then mother Merc will realize the potential for a 250R in the V6 platform. Given all the less than 10 year old (not to mention thousands of older models) bass and small sport boats that would benefit from that combo. Which wouldn't take hardly any investment. Just up the power for the standard 225 four stroke, lighten it up a bit, and throw a sporty on it...SIMPLE!!!...But noooooo lets build and invest millions on a behemoth 600 HP motor, that from what I heard the other day got outperformed by far on a Boston Whaler Rampage. When they set three 600's vs four 450R's. The 450R's out accelerated and beat the 600's on top end. Here is the kicker...The THREE 600's cost more, used more fuel, and weighed more than the FOUR 450R's. That came right from a Merc Tech at a Whaler dealer. WTH!!!...is right! All that being said, hoping we can still use/afford gas in the next four years.

 

[Cleavor]

This is where I am now, I think my 260 might need a hone and rings, going to find out in the spring. While a re-ring is certainly better than a full re-build, I don't know how much longer I can fight this battle. I might be better off parting out my 260 and putting the money towards a 300R.

Ally-Sun, I agree, why Mercury Racing has left this hole in their line up is a mystery. If they came out with a V6 225 4 Stroke with a Sporty and a 15 inch mid, I would be all in! The other thing is the price of the props for these motors. 5k for a prop on top of 25k for a new 4 stroke is a bridge too far people like me

 

[ROBERT CROSS]

I bought a 200XS ROS and I hope it lasts.

Us also....Darris loved it.

 

[GotMyAlly]

Im in a little different situation. XB21. Bigger boat, handles the heavier motors a little easier. I have a 250XS now. I know parts are getting harder to find even on these. And rebuild costs are high. A 250r doesn't weigh any more than my current motor. Realistically I'd probably replace it with a 300r.

I have a 4 stroke on my other boat. Love it. Great torque, idles smooth and quiet. No 2 stroke oil. Im not fighting it.... I'll not have another 2 stroke.

If I was still running a xb02 or xb03, my answer would be very different.

 

[gmorgan]

Im in a little different situation. XB21. Bigger boat, handles the heavier motors a little easier. I have a 250XS now. I know parts are getting harder to find even on these. And rebuild costs are high. A 250r doesn't weigh any more than my current motor. Realistically I'd probably replace it with a 300r.

I have a 4 stroke on my other boat. Love it. Great torque, idles smooth and quiet. No 2 stroke oil. Im not fighting it.... I'll not have another 2 stroke.

If I was still running a xb02 or xb03, my answer would be very different.

I think I disagree in regard to parts being hard to get and rebuild costs high. I can get anything I want for a 2.5
Or 3 liter from Pro Marine, and when you compare the price of a rebuild to the cost of a new 250R or 300R, a rebuild looks pretty good.