Ultrex woes again...'bye Bird and hello Garmin...

[G Allen]

My factory reconditioned, bought new MK Ultrex had a second, catastrophic failure about 3 weeks ago, at about 300 hours of operation. I found about it on the water at the beginning of my fishing day and had to go home. The steering went all the way to one side and would not be budged. Turns out that the foot pedal sensor was bad.

The first failure was the brushes losing contact with the commutator in the motor at about 150 hours. The brushes were too wide to slide in their holders, I had to remove them and run them up and down a mill bastard file on the work bench to get them to not stick. Lack of quality control in manufacturing...With the motor running again, self repaired at home I though It was going to be all good. Then when I found out that when it panda the bed (for the second time in the first 300 hours...) in order to work on it, the MK factory tech has to had the trolling motor delivered to him dismounted from the boat. AAAAAAUGH! So local boat shop labor is 120 bucks an hour, so screw that, I took it off myself. Major, major PITA...then it was the nearly two week wait for parts, and by the time i was able to start remounting it the best three weeks of Koke fishing season was gone. PFFFFT!

I was and am still displeased that this bow mount troller failed twice in the first 300 hours, and more so that no MK repair network service tech could work on it while mounted on the boat. That fact alone caused several hours of extra effort to get it off and remounted, or suffer huge expenses from shop labor, the removal and replacement would have been very expensive, waaaaay more than the cost of repairing the motor itself. I will NEVER EVER BUY A MINN KOTA PRODUCT AGAIN, EVER! Now I'm just waiting to see what else goes wrong with it. Trust in the product is gone...my get 2 helix 10 chart plotter went bad on the Mega Imaging channel, that part of it stopped working in the first two years I had it. At least the 360 transducer setup has been reliable. For what it cost to add on, it had better be. Some of my fishing guide friends had their Bird G2 finders crap out as well.

When looking at the Garmin product line in comparison to MK/Bird's offerings, it's not even close. 'bye 'bye Birdshit!

Matter of fact, I got really really pissed and did some major retail therapy in the fish finder department right after dropping the motor off to the tech. Earlier, I had upgraded to a Helix 8 G3N from my G2N helix 10, the newer finder was more versatile with mega side imaging as well as down and the screen was sharper. Went to flea bay and had enough time to order and have delivered a Garmin UHD 93 chart plotter, with hi def gt54 transducer, then added the panoptix livescope kit ($$$!!!) and a couple days later found an earlier panoptix ps22 transducer for about half off. I was having problems with the power supply to my finders, due to corrosion in the crimp fittings causing a huge voltage and current drop. So I pulled out the main power supply to the electronics, and put in a new one, this time instead of running from the boat fuse box with 14 gauge, I ran 10 gauge from one of the troll batteries all the way to the bow panel. All the crimp fittings normally used, convenient to strip wire and assemble in seconds were ditched in favor of carefully flowing solder joints, minutes instead of seconds to do right.

The hummingbird 360, g3n chart plotter/finder and troll motor ducers were retained. I mounted the panoptix livescope and perspective mount on the Bird 360/ultrex shaft right above the 360's ducer. I'm not worried about the garmin unit causing interference with the 360, if so, will just turn off the 360. The Garmin electronics make MK's offerings look stone age in comparison.

This morning I woke up early to lightning and rain, so going to have to splash the new setup tomorrow...

 

[SLOmofo]

Once you get it all worked out let us know what and which to buy. Thanks you for saving me $$$.

 

[G Allen]

Will do...but likely won't be using the Garmin to full potential, I need to get a memory card installed and then download the latest factory software... Oh, yeah, that's the new thing with today's fish finding chart plotters, you pretty much need to shake hands with the manufacturer;s website to get all the features up. But If I get my rig working like the ones i have seen on The University of YouTube by next week I will be doing some "video game" style fishing like the top end bass pros do, but for big fat trout and Kokes. The 'Bird panda is pretty good panda, but not as capable as the top end Lowrance and Garmin. I made a boo boo buyer's mistake, bought a Garmin earlier model transducer to run but my particular model of chart plotter does not have enough sockets to run it. I got it at a good flipping price. so no biggie. Will update...

 

[GotMyAlly]

What's the panda got to do with it?

 

[G Allen]

This forum's software autocorrect for s h i t...... is panda.

The story got better today, splash time.

I got up 530 after loading all the gear back in. Went to the best spot on the lake to begin fishing...The MK was DOA would not switch on AT ALL. Got back home took off the front bow panel to see if the MK power supply plug was getting electrons. Measured 12.65 volts on the female side and uncovered the connections behind the male side prongs... side...12.64 I just got through spending hours of my time and over 200 bucks on a failed factory fuckup fix of a lemon POS design motor, the tech told me he tested it, and instead it proved to be completely DOA on the water... with a perfect power supply to it. I am looking for some you tubers in my neighborhood to vid me at night cutting my MK ULTREX into bits and chunks of smoking stinking metal with my angle grinder...slowly...with death metal music droning loudly in the background at least as loud as the Milwaukee grinding wheel... to send back to the factory in a more compact than original box along with a note explaining how I improved their product and why they will have to pay me 50 grand to put another of their POS motors on my boat. Not just a little upset... am I?

 

[SLOmofo]

Video tape it. Methodically cut it into just barely connected bits.....leaving it running as you do it.

 

[GotMyAlly]

I hate you've had such issues. Mine has been great.

 

[G Allen]

Update....Gary, I don't get to joyfully destroy it after all. The tech did his work right. I owe one here, was wrong, so I absolutely apologize. I'm actually a bit let down, I was really looking forward to going John Henry on the damn thing with my splitting maul and getting some night shots of sparks going 20 feet up from my Skil wormdrive chopping through metal with an abrasive cutoff blade.

Operator error on my part caused the motor to not turn on. The first clue that I had screwed up was seeing the troller ground wire hooked up to the 60 amp MK breaker. Oooh! THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT DOPE!

When building a new power supply for the finders all the wires were temporarily removed from the trolling batts. The power cables for the troll are not marked or color coded. My bad....100 percent. The motor worked better than it had for the last year, all the nagging problems I had tolerated were corrected. Pretty good thing, I was so angry that I had a Garmin Force and a Lawrence Ghost on my fleabay watch list to research and snipe the one best for me.

So my plans to joyfully demolish the troller have been put on hold until the next time it screws up, which it will... The failure in the troll power steering pedal sensor was the delamination and corrosion of it's ribbon cable conductors, the delam caused water to get into the pressure sensors, killing them. In the high mountains where I live every day a boat sitting in a driveway goes through freezing and thawing temps on a daily basis for months at a time. A rough day on the lake can put some water over the bow and every time that happens the control pedal gets douched. I think that moisture plus frost wedging killed that part. The pedal could most defintely use some redesign with regard to weather resistance.

On the good side of things, even without downloading the most recent software or registering yet according to factory instructions it took just a few minutes to get the Garmin UHD 93SV up running, and I do like the touch screen thang, it's faster to move around to different screens than the helix non touch screen. The GT54 worked as an in hull transducer for chirp quite well. But the crowning moment that made the 2500 bucks for the Garmin and Panoptix ducer/black box was watching a 3 pound cutthroat trout swim to and hit my dodger/squid rig on the fish finder screen at the same time that the down rigger release popped loose. For the first time I could see how the fish were reacting to my trolled presentations. I learned that it was not necessary to do the super long Shasta style setback for trolling, I could see the fish swimming right up to the ball and hanging out next to it for several seconds before abandoning their curiosity. That ability to see the fish swim in real time and see how they react made the price tag seem paltry for the benefit delivered. I was worried that the Garmin Panoptix ducer might interfere with operation of the 360 since I had mounted the panoptix right on the Ultrex 360 mount shaft right above the 360 ducer so that when the motor is in spot lock that the Panoptix would not be swinging back and forth with the troller shaft steering. That turned out to be an epic mix, with the 360 set at 540 hz instead of the higher value, range set at 75 feet with gain and contrast maxed it was possible to see fish as the boat approached them, and then with the Panoptix could see those same fish as the boat passed over them, the down rigger balls and dodgers and fish behavior on the screen. I had the stereo rocking Faith No More, Alice in Chains, Marylyn Manson and others beyond obnoxiously loud, knocking back a few Foster's tinnies, the wide base on the Foster cans don't tip over as easily as Bud long necks do, perhaps the fish could sense the boat arriving from a long way from the bass lines and drums pounding out from the hull underwater, they were not all that afraid of it nor did they dive an extra 20 feet down when the boat passed over them, only a couple feet on average with the tunes blasting. Game changer.

 

[SLOmofo]

But, did you catch any fish?

 

[G Allen]

Yes, got your humor, but not a lot that day, post front weather patterns. I never ever saw a fish swim to and hit my presentation on a fish finder screen before. The cutthroat that I saw on screen was within the 15-22 inch slot limit, at 18 colorful inches and over well over three pounds he would be a tempting fattie to take home and smoke... over charcoal.

It gets much, much worse. Sick and wrong thinking after guzzling while fishing... I realized that I missed my old Bird 5 inch screen unit near the steering wheel. The bow screens are not all that easy to read from the driver's seat... The take away from that first time out was that video game fishing needs a larger screen or screen closer to the operator.

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a used but barely splashed Garmin Panoptix PS22 ducer for half price on flea bay by mistake, but hung on to it. Not only did I miss my driver's seat Bird finder, I found that the smaller screens on the bow mounted units needed a lot of tweaking to get the angle just right for really good strong daylight viewing with polarized shades on, reading them from the driver's seat was not workable. I did not want the wallet drain and battery drain of 12 inch or larger screens either...

So while guzzling and ingesting unmentionables dirtbag logic prevailed. Why not spend a couple hundred bucks on thingies to put the less expensive smaller screens closer to the operator for easier viewing instead of spending thousands more for bigger screens placed further away? I ordered a double ball and long arm for one of my beefy bow RAM D mounts to extend the 9 inch Garmin, increasing it's multi directional reach to around 21 or so inches away from the deck mount. XB'21s E-Ped eat yer heart out. For the dash mounted position I got a 1 inch ball mount, two piece arm and pre drilled mounting plate for the 7 inch Garmin's cradle to put it's screen closer to my face than the steering wheel.

For the dash chart plotter I got the 7 inch version of the Garmin UHD 93sv recently installed, also from fee bay. I am planning on networking them to see all 3 Garmin transducers from bow or dashboard positions, down rigger balls and lures under and behind the boat with the fish swimming in real time, viewing two different types of live movement transducers at the same time, from sitting or standing at the bow or behind the wheel. The in hull transducer will provide other views on both screens, also for while the boat is planing down the lake. Of course, jigging, trolling, and casting will be way different..in about a week when the rest of the parts get here.

In trying for value, though with success, the wallet drain factor was absolutely horrible from the buyer's remorse glass is half empty now view. The glass half full view says that it was beyond inexpensive considering the value of the lessons provided in their very first use. When the rest gets here I will be ready to take on new waters and new species with much greater confidence than before. The boat is going to have a new name, was the Koke Whore, for all the money I initially spent upgrading gear case, powerhead, and electronics. Now, with this upgrade it's Da Koke Sniffah fo sho!

 

[SLOmofo]

What ya using for bait?

 

[G Allen]

Home made squids behind dodgers for the Kokes. Trout like them as well.

 

[SLOmofo]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[G Allen]

On to the next chapters... a bit of bad luck trending and continuing...to my immediate anger and long term learning...went out, third time I got to use it... the thousand dollar transducer cable got snagged by a rod butt and ended up being carelessly caught unseen in a motor mount pinch point, when I deployed the motor carelessly it cut the cable...now I know why GARMIN routes their transducer cabling within the mount bracket instead of externally like the MK does. There are around 27 conductors in that cable, soldering reconnections was not going to be an option. Yes, there was operator error here, with a cruel result only rectified by colorful four letter poetry and an 875 dollar flea bay obtained replacement a couple weeks later. You can bet that I went through a lot more of black electrical tape and cable ties the second time around. Was feeling confident now for sure, settled back in to the normal watching the weather front rhythm and fishing.

Then...

less than a half dozen times after the tech repaired it and I re installed it, and while on the lake fishing, the UNRELIABLE ULTREX motor filled up with water and stopped operating. This time, since Koke season was done, much less emotional anguish this time, more like a fuuuuuuuuuk...again? This is with less than 500 hours total use over 3 seasons.

I realized after the last failure that I needed to be really nice to the MK tech. I could learn from him...since this motor seems to fail often, the problem areas are now becoming predictable. Soon I'll know all the parts to order and I can repair it myself since my MINN KOTA ULTREX IS OPERATIONALLY UNRELIABLE in on water use.

The tech told me how the Ultrex can be removed from the deploying mount with a single allen bolt. That made it easier this time, then removed the dedicated mount for the 360 bird 'ducer and Garmin livescope 'ducer. Dissected the cable bundles, disconnected cables, then off to the tech. All bearings, seals, o-rings, brushes and strings will be replaced with new. If the armature passes testing it will go back in. The commutator looked great. I split the cases and drained it right after getting home from the lake. The case bolts were tight and the prop shaft seal looked undamaged. I did see signs of corrosion on the aluminum next to the case O-ring seals, I will run a bead of silicone over the case splits to provide some backup when I get it back from the tech.

If a dealer did the removal/reinstall my cost would have been 100 miles of towing plus 120 bucks an hour. So the next move is to obtain a complete motor assembly to bolt on after the rebuilt one fails again. A marine mechanic can work on a 50 thousand dollar thousand parts outboard motor on the boat, my local MK tech has to have their 2500 dollar motor off the boat to work on it.

The 360 and livescope on a perspective mount attached to the 360's troll motor mount shaft work together well for trolling, casting, or especially vertical jigging, which is the only reason I have not done the video of the Ultra Cruel Destruction of the Ultrex... yet. I have something like a recreation of the King Aella Blood Eagle scene from the TV Vikings series in mind with power tools and a splitting maul as soon as I can afford to fork out 3 grand for a Ghost or Force. Maybe might look for another broken MK unit to use for a future Fireball fueled upcoming WAR get together athletic event, the MINNKOTA TROLLER TOSS for distance and flight quality points...

On a positive note, I did boat a PB Bear Lake Cutt at Strawberry Reservoir the trip before the troller died again, a first time 22 1/4 inch slot limit buster...the cutts average 16-18 inches and this time of the year some anglers who love to count are boating 50 plus cutts and sometimes some fat triploid sterile bows per day bass fishing for trout with bass plastics and presentations on and off shore... Strawberry also is one of the five best Kokanee Salmon lakes for quantity of 3 to 4 pound Kokes caught per season in the country.

The RAM mount upgrades proved to be wonderful on the casting deck D ball setup, the result of being able to get that 9 inch screen 2 feet up off the deck aimed perfectly for polarized sunglasses does exceed the factory E-ped's capabilities. The B Ball setup for the dash mounted 7 inch chart plotter was too wimpy but still made it very workable with great results. I would use the C ball setup the next time around. The GARMIN chart plotter bail mount design is cool, yank the unit out of the mount clip, cover the mount plug with the rubber cover hanging from the mount, nothing $$ electronic gets left on the boat to get hot under the cover anymore or to get 5 finger discounted while the boat is parked.

It will be mid October before I can get the motor back from the tech, so by then the top 20 feet of water at the Berry will be going nuts with feeding fish and Indian summer. Then there upcoming full moon week October and November cold weather camping trips to Flaming Gorge for a shot at a 40 pound lake trout and taking home 50 pounds of burbot fillets. Gross looking fish they are, straight out of a science fiction movie. But the meat is white, light, and delicious on the table. Burbot fishing is a night owl activity, and has become quite popular in northern UT and Wyoming. In the mid winter with high desert howling winds driving sub zero temps to polar chill factor numbers the Burbot are enjoying their spawning season 15-60 feet on certain bottoms under the ice, the locals have some pretty amazing all night hard core ice fishing tent partying/catching fish/drilling holes through the ice, and there is a huge annual Burbot Bash fishing contest/redneck-ish social event on the ice to help control their population. Flaming Gorge Burbot are that cool invasive fish species to catch, murder, and eat, or to bury before planting in your vegetable garden. They are more tedious to clean, but the amount of meat per fish over 18 inches in length is huge.

Even with the harsh operator lessons learned this summer, there is a real thrill at getting to operate and fish out of my XTB-21. To think that an antique vintage boat is still one of the fastest boats on the water at any given time any place and yet besides original tournament bass fishing design is also more than capable for intense fishing all day long while hanging out under the bimini at 1.1 mph catching fish and ah...recreating... quite the spread in capabilities per dollar. Lately the trend in today's ego driven purchases of metal v hull multi species boats is to larger sizes, in the 20-25 foot range, 250-350hp $$$$ 4 stroke main motor, 9.9 gas troller on the stern plus a 36 volt top end troller on the bow with auto pilot steering and spot lock...150-200 grand for an aluminum boat decked out ready to fish. The 31 year old XTB gets to the fish and done to the fish for a small fraction of that, plus when a thunderhead starts dropping bolts the XTB gets 20 miles away from the danger muuuuuuch more quickly and does a smoother ride in the process.

Still a win 31 years out of the factory mold, now fishing out of the original design concept very, very well...WHEN THE MINN KOTA ULTREX ISN'T BREAKING WHILE FISHING...

 

[SLOmofo]

"I feel your pain!"

 

[O'Brien 21]

Wow!!!!! I never thought that anyone could stretch out a story more than Gary! i had to take a nap half way thru.

 

[allimax]

I was talking about todays trolling motors with Jonathan at the Rally a few weeks ago. He was indicating that all the new trolling motors have problems. Being a tournament fisherman he sees way more of it than I ever would. He runs a Minnkota and keeps a backup. His words to me were to stay away from the Garmin. Personally I would go with the Ghost but at $3600 now that’s not going to happen any time soon.