GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
Check your keel rollers!
You'd think when you buy a $75k boat, it would be properly fitted to the trailer.
You'd think when you buy a $75k boat, it would be properly fitted to the trailer.
There's no excuse for this crap!
- Thread starter GotMyAlly
- Start date
My trailer have never used keel rollers. My bunks extend about 16" more rearward and have the 6" slick plastic covers over the carpet to keep it from trapping sand [we have lots of sand in Florida] and wearing away my gel coat. My two twin PWC trailers are set up the same way. All of them are self loading, even in the worst wind/current and never have to be slid over.
Tim Powell
Active Member
Wow!
That's ridiculous!
XXXR2001
Active Member
I agree. Within 2-3 years of buying my Drag, it was resting on the center roller. Also had a friend with a 01 Drag resting on the rear roller. Seems like a little more effort (and I mean very little) could have prevented damage! To be honest.....I really do not like the Boatmate trailer that came with it. Besides the boat not resting like it should, the inner fender edges around the tires are razor sharp...I know this because I damn near cut my finger off washing the tire one day. Again, very little effort could have prevented my trip to the ER but I guess saving 1 man hour on quality control is more important. My 09 Hydrostream venom has a Boatmate trailer and its way nicer with smoothed inner fenders and the boat fits like it should so I don't think the trailer mfr is to blame.
GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
Look how close that bracket is even without the roller. ....
Allison told me today that the rear of the vertical bunks should have about an inch of clearance under them in the brackets. Mine had about 1/4". So effectively my boat was sitting on the trailer about 3/4" lower than intended. And it is not a case of the bolt hole in the wood becoming slotted. Still a single hole. ...it was installed that way. I lifted the rear of the boat slightly this evening, unbolted the bunks and inserted 1" shims to place it as Allison intended (and drilled new holes in the bunks). I think there's room in that bracket for asecond bolt for additional support. That cleared the rear roller, but did nothing for the front. It's still going to have to be lowered. And then off to the local fiberglass guy to fix the gouge.
I swear between this and the tire/fender issue, I've missed more of this fishing season than I care to admit. I need a backup boat at this rate.
Allison told me today that the rear of the vertical bunks should have about an inch of clearance under them in the brackets. Mine had about 1/4". So effectively my boat was sitting on the trailer about 3/4" lower than intended. And it is not a case of the bolt hole in the wood becoming slotted. Still a single hole. ...it was installed that way. I lifted the rear of the boat slightly this evening, unbolted the bunks and inserted 1" shims to place it as Allison intended (and drilled new holes in the bunks). I think there's room in that bracket for asecond bolt for additional support. That cleared the rear roller, but did nothing for the front. It's still going to have to be lowered. And then off to the local fiberglass guy to fix the gouge.
I swear between this and the tire/fender issue, I've missed more of this fishing season than I care to admit. I need a backup boat at this rate.
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allimax
Active Member
GotMyAlly, sorry you didn't get to make the Rally this year, I was looking forward to meeting you. Good point on the razor sharp fender edge XXXR2001, been there. You know this problem has been going on for years, at least since my 99 so I bet most likely over 20 years, maybe well over. I think the whole trailer fit process needs to be looked at. The two times I've been at the plant the boats in process were on the roll around stands and not the trailer. Ok, so when and how does the boat get fit to the trailer, who's job is that? The Allison family is more anal than most of us about having things right and I feel something is being missed here. My suggestion is when you want someone's attention, PUT IN WRITING. Send a detailed letter snail mail to Nancy and ask Darris to please, please, please address this problem, fix it once and for all. He is the master of seeing problems and fixing them, anilizing how stuff works and improving it. Hell, I learned from Brad (Mittenbass)Thursday Darris has more Patents than all the other boat company's combined so you can't tell me the fix isn't in his head. Maybe it's just a matter of importance, when you move your boat 1000 feet to dump it in verses driving it 9 hours from Maryland hoping it doesn't have damage from the nose sitting to high and bouncing because the hold down up front keeps coming loose. I could go on but let's just say I'm much more scared pulling it down the road than running her. Put it in writing, I will, I thought this problem would have been solved by now for the 21's, clearly it hasn't been made important enough to him yet.
Allyfishing
Well-Known Member
Neal, just trying to get a picture in my head where that rub is on the "keel" in relation to the roller you removed? It's back near the rear axle but how far forward from the pad? The keel is pretty flat right there if I'm not mistaken? I don't see springs either so you must have the torsion axles, right? Wonder if that has something to do with it? Man, that really sucks!! How did you find it in the first place?
bet there's a bunch of owners crawling under their hulls after reading this, I know I will.
bet there's a bunch of owners crawling under their hulls after reading this, I know I will.
GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
It's the front-most roller under the keel. I found it because my factory installed keelguard was starting to peel at the trailing edge, so I was under there re-attaching it. Noticed weight on the roller that is just a few inches behind the keelguard, so I knocked the pin out to take a look and found that.
That led to checking the other rollers. The middle one had plenty of clearance, but the hull was also resting on the rear-most one. Yeah, the one just in front of the pad. Luckily that one was a black roller, and it had only marred the hull. The yellow roller at the front is apparently a much harder compound.
That led to checking the other rollers. The middle one had plenty of clearance, but the hull was also resting on the rear-most one. Yeah, the one just in front of the pad. Luckily that one was a black roller, and it had only marred the hull. The yellow roller at the front is apparently a much harder compound.
GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
PS....yes, I have torsion axles.
GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
Here's some pics of the rear-most roller. You can tell by how close the bracket is to the hull that it's too close. It marred the hull, but did not dig in. Rubbing compound and a lot of elbow grease took care of that.
Now that I shimmed the rear bunk boards, this roller has plenty of clearance. I won't have to do anything other than re-install it. Shimming the rear didn't do anything for the front though.....gotta call Allison back today.
Now that I shimmed the rear bunk boards, this roller has plenty of clearance. I won't have to do anything other than re-install it. Shimming the rear didn't do anything for the front though.....gotta call Allison back today.
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skewby
Active Member
i was at that the factory a couple weeks ago, darris and todd were building a new trailer because boatmate was more worried about the fast pace they could build a trailer and not using the jigs built and designed by darris. so the were redoing all the jigs hoping boatmate would build tha trailers as darris designed them using the correct jigs
GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
And that's exactly why they should be eating the cost of this repair as warranty
catfish123
Well-Known Member
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Agree..................100%
Brack
Well-Known Member
Thats RIGHT,....total BS,.....
skewby
Active Member
as a boat builder you can only design your trailers and give them the jigs to build the trailer you want. its hard to build boats and be QC at someone else business.
But who puts the boats on the trailers?
catfish123
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Problems with these trailers is something that goes back YEARS. I believe the problem is clearly Allison's responsibility. As a manufacturer, when you have suppliers that are supplying you with substandard materials or materials not produced to your specifications, it is your responsibility to inspect future incoming shipments to insure that the final product supplied to your customers is correct. Just my opinion.
GotMyAlly
Well-Known Member
Here's my personal opinion on why these issues occur.
First, I don't believe the keel rollers are even needed. Other bass boats don't have them. The V isn't deep enough to hit the trailer frame between the guide boards anyway. I wouldn't be putting mine back on, except for the fact that I don't want to go through the hassle of grinding off the brackets.
Second, the idea that the boat should be just touching the rollers but not bearing any weight doesn't leave much room for error. When the boat is fitted brand new so that the hull just touches the rollers, the carpet on the trailer is still fluffy and the wood in the bunks is still fresh and wet. Let that wood dry out and shrink just a hair, the carpet gets smashed down, and the boat settles in......just touching turns into weight bearing real quick.
If you don't tow very far, it probably doesn't matter how the boat sits on the trailer. But if your regular trek to the lake is 100 miles each way, a better fit is critical. I've done a lot of research and talked to a lot of folks over the last few days and here's how I set my trailer up. The vertical bunks carry all the weight. There's 1/4" to 3/8" clearance between the hull and the rollers. The flat 2x6 guide bunks in the middle just barely touch hull at the front (I can slide a piece of paper in between), and there's about a 1/4 gap at the rear. And the bow hovers about 1/8" over the bow stop (I think it had too much weight on it before as I had to lift the nose occasionally when loading). To achieve this, I used shims blocks of different thicknesses under the bunk boards until I got it where I wanted it. I ended up with a 1 3/4" block under the front of the bunk and 1" under the rear. I also bumped the boards forward about an inch before drilling fresh holes, which shouldn't be a problem since there is plenty of excess hanging out the back.
Now just waiting on the local glass shop to get the gel in and I'll be back on the water. Not cheap and not easy.....I spent two nights rolling around on the garage floor with my boat on jacks. And I have no idea what the gel repair will cost. But it will be right in the end.
What I did to reconfigure the trailer will work as far as keeping the hull off the rollers and guides. I think it'll load just as well or easier based on where the nose falls in relation to the bow stop now, but only time will tell here. I'll report back after I load it up a few times. The way I got there was trial and error with different block thicknesses, but when it comes time to redo the trailer carpet, I'll replace the 2x6's with 2x8's. No reason not to. At the front, I can use the 2x8 at it's full width and simply notch the rear. That will let the bunk rest on the trailer frame instead of carrying all the weight on the bolts anyway.
I disagree with the notion that it's the responsibility of the trailer manufacturer and the boat builder has no liability here. I bought a boat/trailer combo from Allison, not a bare hull. Allison commissioned the build of the trailer from boatmate. Whether the trailer was built to spec or not, the boat should be fitted to the trailer before it leaves the factory. Not left up to the buyer to discover and fix. And the compression of the carpet and shrinking of the wood, etc., should be taken into account in the tolerances.
I highly recommend anyone with an XB21 to get underneath, crawl around, check the rollers and the guide boards. If there's weight on any of those, it's only a matter of time. Maybe it's more of an issue with the 21's because of the heavier hull and heavier motors. Seems like 03's mostly had the opposite problem, with the bow too high. Either way, look closely at yours and save yourself a lot of headaches down the road.
First, I don't believe the keel rollers are even needed. Other bass boats don't have them. The V isn't deep enough to hit the trailer frame between the guide boards anyway. I wouldn't be putting mine back on, except for the fact that I don't want to go through the hassle of grinding off the brackets.
Second, the idea that the boat should be just touching the rollers but not bearing any weight doesn't leave much room for error. When the boat is fitted brand new so that the hull just touches the rollers, the carpet on the trailer is still fluffy and the wood in the bunks is still fresh and wet. Let that wood dry out and shrink just a hair, the carpet gets smashed down, and the boat settles in......just touching turns into weight bearing real quick.
If you don't tow very far, it probably doesn't matter how the boat sits on the trailer. But if your regular trek to the lake is 100 miles each way, a better fit is critical. I've done a lot of research and talked to a lot of folks over the last few days and here's how I set my trailer up. The vertical bunks carry all the weight. There's 1/4" to 3/8" clearance between the hull and the rollers. The flat 2x6 guide bunks in the middle just barely touch hull at the front (I can slide a piece of paper in between), and there's about a 1/4 gap at the rear. And the bow hovers about 1/8" over the bow stop (I think it had too much weight on it before as I had to lift the nose occasionally when loading). To achieve this, I used shims blocks of different thicknesses under the bunk boards until I got it where I wanted it. I ended up with a 1 3/4" block under the front of the bunk and 1" under the rear. I also bumped the boards forward about an inch before drilling fresh holes, which shouldn't be a problem since there is plenty of excess hanging out the back.
Now just waiting on the local glass shop to get the gel in and I'll be back on the water. Not cheap and not easy.....I spent two nights rolling around on the garage floor with my boat on jacks. And I have no idea what the gel repair will cost. But it will be right in the end.
What I did to reconfigure the trailer will work as far as keeping the hull off the rollers and guides. I think it'll load just as well or easier based on where the nose falls in relation to the bow stop now, but only time will tell here. I'll report back after I load it up a few times. The way I got there was trial and error with different block thicknesses, but when it comes time to redo the trailer carpet, I'll replace the 2x6's with 2x8's. No reason not to. At the front, I can use the 2x8 at it's full width and simply notch the rear. That will let the bunk rest on the trailer frame instead of carrying all the weight on the bolts anyway.
I disagree with the notion that it's the responsibility of the trailer manufacturer and the boat builder has no liability here. I bought a boat/trailer combo from Allison, not a bare hull. Allison commissioned the build of the trailer from boatmate. Whether the trailer was built to spec or not, the boat should be fitted to the trailer before it leaves the factory. Not left up to the buyer to discover and fix. And the compression of the carpet and shrinking of the wood, etc., should be taken into account in the tolerances.
I highly recommend anyone with an XB21 to get underneath, crawl around, check the rollers and the guide boards. If there's weight on any of those, it's only a matter of time. Maybe it's more of an issue with the 21's because of the heavier hull and heavier motors. Seems like 03's mostly had the opposite problem, with the bow too high. Either way, look closely at yours and save yourself a lot of headaches down the road.
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Allyfishing
Well-Known Member
"What I did to reconfigure the trailer will work as far as keeping the hull off the rollers and guides."
I need help with this statement. Is there supposed to be any portion of the hull on any of the rollers while on the trailer? Are the rollers there only for the sole purpose of the keel resting on them when loading or unloading so the keel does not touch any cross member of the trailer?
What are the "guides" you are referring to? Are you calling the carpeted boards that lay flat "guides"? Should there not be any part of the hull resting on those boards either?
I've studied my trailer a few times pondering how little hull actually rests on the bunks with how much of the hull is hanging out to either side. Looks kinda tipsy like the hull could fall off to one side or the other if it were not strapped down at the transom.
I need help with this statement. Is there supposed to be any portion of the hull on any of the rollers while on the trailer? Are the rollers there only for the sole purpose of the keel resting on them when loading or unloading so the keel does not touch any cross member of the trailer?
What are the "guides" you are referring to? Are you calling the carpeted boards that lay flat "guides"? Should there not be any part of the hull resting on those boards either?
I've studied my trailer a few times pondering how little hull actually rests on the bunks with how much of the hull is hanging out to either side. Looks kinda tipsy like the hull could fall off to one side or the other if it were not strapped down at the transom.