Chad Phillips
Active Member
gotta love the rollers!
Repower Time, 21 XTB
- Thread starter ARLIN
- Start date
ARLIN
Active Member
Agree 100% on handling of the XTB if you stay with 2.5L or similar engines. Even starting at age 47, I got to a precision and comfort level experienced Allison drivers quickly noticed. Allisonman caught me hangin her on the tail down at Glenn's last year. Ha! Also soon developed XTB rough water driving skills never dreamed of--assuming deep wind chop and not cruiser rollers. I could drive the XTB with the old 2.0L carb XR2 in rough chop back in the 1990s so fast that the gas would bounce out of the carbs and cause it to skip a beat. Ha!
200 XS---Darris has a 50+ hr 200 XS that he is pricing to dealers on re-packaged XBs. Will sell engine only--nice 2002 200XS, but with warranty long gone. Darris a couple days ago wasn't too keen on the few extra pounds on an XTB for 2.5L Optimax versus prior Pro MAX EFI engine weight.
Will get Glenn to open mine up after the 4th and the drag races at Kingston But, chances are not good that it can be fixed at a satisfactory price. I don't get the economics where a new powerhead that you order from Mercury costs nearly as much a entire new engine that also is ordered from Mercury? From my vantage point, I can see a huge shakeout in the outboard engine world in years ahead given this sort of thing. Read hot articles on the web today that current Mercury operations in Fond Du Lac,WI might be moving to Stillwater, OK. Tough deal for 1,900 longterm Mercury employees in WI if true. And, heard that 37% of Mercury dealers had gone out since the economic downturn.
Back to the drag races--the last several weeks Glenn has fixed up his old Visioncraft and put on new 3.2L Stroker for a so-called "green" class. Seems like he has to weigh-in at 1,750 lbs? Running good and won the first time out in ECDBA at North Augusta, SC recently. The Visioncraft is same mostly tunnel boat that dominated in IOGP Mod-VP a few years back. Recall IOGP event where there were two qualifying heats with 38 boats and 15 others on the trailers at Augusta on the Savannah River in the early to mid 1990s. IOGP was a well run, big time event with huge "SEC football like" crowds.
I may just throw on a stock 150-175 stock Optimax to get off the bank with some engine longevity and good fuel mileage. Nagging dislike with the thought of paying the premium price for a 175 Pro XS and still ending up with a stock lower unit without solid mounts that probably cannot be run high enough to reach any kind of potential the 175 Pro XS would have on an Allison XTB. (See RA's post earlier re XB and Engine Guardian)
P.S. Jeff C. reporting a TWRA officer with 1,600+ hours on 2.5L V-6 Optimax. Wow! That is some serious time on Watts Bar and engine life. Many other good reports on 2.5L Optimax now coming in per Jeff.
RedAllison
Well-Known Member
I can't see how a 200XS (2.5) weighs that much more than a 225ProMax. Heck how much did the ol GT Johnnyrudes weigh back in the day? Did Darris mention what he'd take for that 200XS? That's one HELL of a motor, about as perfect a dependable, go fast, feeshin green motor as was ever built for the 20ftrs and XTBs. What kinda service record/opinion does Jeff and Glenn give on the 200XS's?
Heck buy you a 175ProXS, slap a set of hard lower mounts and a tweaked Sportmaster on it. If something happens I'm sure Jeff and your brother could getcha taken care of if something happened warranty wise. :wink
Glenn was tellin us during the "Factory Friday" about diggin out the ol Visioncraft and runnin the big green motor. Should at least make racin a lil more fun without havin to tear everything down and constantly tweakin everything between rounds!!! Will be interestin to see how he does with it.
:beer:
RA
Heck buy you a 175ProXS, slap a set of hard lower mounts and a tweaked Sportmaster on it. If something happens I'm sure Jeff and your brother could getcha taken care of if something happened warranty wise. :wink
Glenn was tellin us during the "Factory Friday" about diggin out the ol Visioncraft and runnin the big green motor. Should at least make racin a lil more fun without havin to tear everything down and constantly tweakin everything between rounds!!! Will be interestin to see how he does with it.
:beer:
RA
Darth VMAX
Well-Known Member
Mercury relisted the 200xs dry weight at 440 lbs in the final year of production. The 2.5xs was listed at 450 lbs which is the exact same as a 3.0L OMC Looper! The 225x was close to 400 lbs so we are talking a 40-50 lb difference. Which wouldnt seem too much for a 21 ft boat IMO. My 2.6 Carb Yammie is listed at 417 minus the two props and it does just fine with 10" Hyd plate on my Comp Pro XB02.
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Crazyoz
Banned
Can we please get over the yammi motors already. No one runs yammis and it is for a reason. So lets please get over it unless you want to bring it to the fastpass rally and show us how the yammi stomps on the mercurys so band that we cant stand it any more. Please man I have heard about the yammis so much that I would love it if you brought your 2.6 or what ever it is and come down here and show us slow merc boys how it is done. I have a 225 promax that I will put on you any day at any distance it dont matter to me. I just dont want to here how bad the yammis are any more until they or you can show me just how bad or fast you are. I can promise you this when it comes to cost it wont take long to see why everyone runs Mercs. Please bring it and show me that I am wrong. I will be waiting on you any time. Just let me Know.
wc911
Active Member
Just keep John out of it HA! HA!
ARLIN
Active Member
Darris saiid he had been asking $9,500 for the 200 XS--that being tops. And, with pricing to dealers at less now so they can make a few bucks.
Hey, Jeff and Glenn charge me more than regular customers. Ha!
The V/C and the 3.2L setup must be right on as Glenn was running to Memphis hauling boats last weekend instead of running it. Old Hustler trailer had about rusted out, but Visioncraft itself only needed few reinforcements, was in excellent condition.
Darth VMAX
Well-Known Member
Crazy...whatever floats your boat man. Unfortunatley we as Allie owners are in a serious bind as far as repowering with NEW motors go. Like it or not, that is the facts. And as far as Yamaha's go and hearing about them LOL... you really need to look around.
You are correct Most people run Mercs which is fine and dandy. They were a perfect fit for Darris's 20 ft boats. However, Mercury no longer is the automatic choice with them no longer building a hp small-block, high rev, light weight powerplant.
I simply offer information on other options. I have also spoken about the small-block ETEC's as well. Do they all work? YES. Do they go as fast on an Allie as a 2.5 HP Merc... NOPE and I neve have claimed they would. Just an FYI though... the Yams are moving up. You might think twice about lipping off to some Strokers with BIG Yamaha power on them. The latest is 118.7 mph. Not many Allison fishing boats are running that. All in all...I am just hoping that people continue to buy an repower the 20' boats so Darris will continue to produce them. I would hate to see such awesome boats go bye bye :-(
So if racing someone makes you feel like a man then...whatever. Like I am seriously going to haul my boat 900 miles to prove anything. I don't care if I had 500 hp on it, I wouldnt do it just to "prove" whatever point your trying to make.
You are correct Most people run Mercs which is fine and dandy. They were a perfect fit for Darris's 20 ft boats. However, Mercury no longer is the automatic choice with them no longer building a hp small-block, high rev, light weight powerplant.
I simply offer information on other options. I have also spoken about the small-block ETEC's as well. Do they all work? YES. Do they go as fast on an Allie as a 2.5 HP Merc... NOPE and I neve have claimed they would. Just an FYI though... the Yams are moving up. You might think twice about lipping off to some Strokers with BIG Yamaha power on them. The latest is 118.7 mph. Not many Allison fishing boats are running that. All in all...I am just hoping that people continue to buy an repower the 20' boats so Darris will continue to produce them. I would hate to see such awesome boats go bye bye :-(
So if racing someone makes you feel like a man then...whatever. Like I am seriously going to haul my boat 900 miles to prove anything. I don't care if I had 500 hp on it, I wouldnt do it just to "prove" whatever point your trying to make.
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Just gonna put my 2 cents in. been working on my boss's hpdi motor for the last year because of ethanol. He's got three grand in it right now from ethanol damage. basically what has happened is all the plastic on the engine fuel system has swollen up so bad that the filters and pumps quit working. No B.S. here. I couldn't even re-assemble the sump filter on the side of the motor it was so bad. not one problem with my merc. And they are talking about upping the ethanol in our gas. just F.Y.I. for you.
ARLIN
Active Member
I'm suspecting ethanol may have gotten mine. Will post again when I find out more. Wondering if there is some practical kit that you can tote around to test for ethanol percentage on the spot? Might be better suited for a new thread as this one is getting worn. Ha! There is a station on River Road area of Watts Bar Lake in Eastern Tennessee that sells ethanol free fuel. Good one page article on ethanol dos and donts in the very recent Trailer Boats magazine.
Also, I chatted with Darris for 30 minutes or so at the July 4th races in Kingston,TN. He said the product decisions by Mercury on the H/P new 2.5L engines has ''killed him", meaning his market for new 20' Allisons. And, it was obvious that Darris likes the perfoprmance of the 175 Pro XS on the XBs, especially going with a 1.75 Speedmaster so the engine can be raised. He pointed out the advantages of the 1.75 over the 1.87 Speedmaster if an Allison owner wants to keep the RPMs in check and do some top end cruising.
We agreed that Mercury could probably make good money on replacement mechanical steering cables even if they subbed the production out 100% and billed through Mercury. Of course the new H/D hydraulic is nice, but pouring new money into some older boats gets to be tough.
During our discussion of potential ethanol "phase separation" mentioned in the above Trailer Boats article, Darris recalled a customer who had not properly mixed up the 2-stroke oil in the gas tank (for non oil injection XR6). The XR6 carb engine sucked in oil only from the very bottom of the gas tank and starting smoking like crazy and quit and would not start.
..hey do plenty of hard Allison running before summer gets away..
GFinch
Well-Known Member
Wrong thread
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Crazyoz
Banned
Here is what floats my boat. If you are going to compare motor to motor of any kind then compare them when they are stock. People do race mercs more than any other. I am talking about fishing boats being that is what I have. As far as strokers go my lip will run just the same and as loud as it does right now. The one your are talking about is a 950 pound boat coming from a reliable source and that weighs less than my allison. I talked to the HPDI boys at the fastbass one year and they told me that there is nothing else that could be done to the Yammi as far a building it. If it broke than junk it and start all over again, that is far from stock, not to mention that it has a Merc gearcase on it. Let me make my point again you talk about the yammis like they are better than mercs stock on stock but what you mean is that a yammi is better than a stock Merc if you put another 10,000 dollars in it after you purchase it. There is no comparison between the two at all. As far as the HPDI boys, well we got along just fine and I think they are some fine people and I appluad them for what they have done. Just be honest about it. I like you would not travel that for neither, just to get beat by a stock 225 promax that will push a XB2002T tournemant hull 105 any day and it dont take long for it to get there. It weighed in at 954 pounds shiped and I still have the paper work on it. Just emagine what it would do if I put 10,000 dollars in it, man 120 would`nt be hard to get at all, and it wouldnt take long to get there. Take it any way you want but lets talk Apples to Apples and not Apples to Watermelons.
Darth VMAX
Well-Known Member
ROTFLMAO... what ever you say. You are so worried about your point you have failed to actually read mine. I am done with this.
Have yourself a wonderful time on the water.
Have yourself a wonderful time on the water.
strip
Active Member
I know I would love to test drive Darths Counter rotating 2003. If you ask me it sounds like an awesome set up. I know another guy that is fixing to power with a 9000 RPM hammer. I can't wait to see how that works. And as far as not being a Merc, I will say that I would run a freakin Briggs and Straton if the speed and economy was there. Merc has left us light weight boaters in the cold when they quit building the HP 2.5's. BTW Stroker used to advertise "the worlds fastest wide body bass boat" They hold true to that for sure!
bassracr
Active Member
hey arlin, if you were happy with the performance of your motor,there is a pretty good looking 2000 model 150 pro max with a torque master for sale in the motor section, you could possibly get 1500-2000 from whats left of your motor and end up not having to shell out a whole lotta' dough to get you back on the water...maybe another option for you..just a thought
ARLIN
Active Member
Loved that Pro Max setup on my XTB 21--precision Allison handling and plenty of speed for me in open type boat. But, have gone with new 150 Optimax to get back on the water before the summer is over. Will post later on the 150 Optimax after breakin, etc.
Thanks for posting on this for sale Pro Max 150. Thought about just keeping my Super Mag for rebuild--$1,500 is right on as is trade in value.