Proved a point (Savage ML10II)

[RedAllison]

Lastyear I changed loads and re-sighted my Savage ML 10 II smokeless muzzleloader, I then "cleaned it" (which constitutes a shot or two of brakecleaner down the bore and swabbing it out) and then loaded it. The last time I hunted with it lastyear I didn't shoot it so I purposefully left it loaded so I could see what it would do a year later. (Obviously it wasn't primed and it sat all summer untouched in my safe.)

Fast forward to yesterday afternoon. I was sitting in a Double Bull groundblind with my two sons (11 and 6) over an oatplot that has several round haybales scattered along the edges. I placed the blind right next to a bale and before dark 15 deer had stepped into the plot (350ydsx35yds) and hadn't so much as glanced at our "double bale".

About a quarter of five a little slickhead wandered past at only 18yds. My boys were pleading with me to pop her and Michelle had told me that we needed some more ground meat in the freezer. (If you ralliers like my deer steaks you should have some of Michelle's spaghetti, chili or enchiladas with ground deer!!!) So anyway the one year old load went off. Right on the mark as well, she piled up in her tracks. (With Leupold QRW bases and rings and a Vari-X II 3x9x40 I wasn't concerned about any impact shift during the year!)

I aint a "buckskinner" so traditional equipment doesn't matter to me. I want a HAMMER whenever I have something in my hands that has a trigger. So THAT's why I continue to use and recommend the Savage. It truly is a "smokeless" death machine and is as close to a maintenence free gun as is a regular centerfire gun.

My kids really gotta kick out of the trip as well. My 11 year old had been deer hunting with me before but this was my 6 year olds first trip for deer so he was MESMERIZED while looking at the deer. My oldest decided he wanted some deer summer sausage for supper so we took ours too the processor and "swapped out" (leave yours and pick up some that are already processed in batches) and after a quick stop we had summer sausage, crackers and chips for dinner lastnight on the way home. LOL and the boys wanted summer sausage again this morning for breakfast...

The more I shoot this thing the more I LOVE it,
RA

 

[jimmyb]

hey red,

what kind of powder and bullets are you shooting? I am still dying to get a ml10, and this year might be the year i finally pull the trigger!

 

[RedAllison]

Sorry for the delay Jimmy.

Since day one I have used Vhitivouri (sp) N110 powder. Intially I had a HOT load of it behind a 300 Hornady SST. It shot fine with that in cold weather and I used it to take deer out too 300yds with it. But lastyear when I shot it before season to check the zero it was 80+ degrees and the sabots were being blown up and melted in the barrel causing the bullets to keyhole. I'd actually find shards of the sabot about 5-10 yds in front of the muzzle. One was even so extreme I actually had copper in the bore, that meant the bullet was rattlin down the barrel without the sabot protecting it. :roll:

So I dropped back too 250grn Hornady SST (which is about 90% of what we sold too our customers who bought the Savages) and weighed out the charge digitally, I realized I was shooting nearly 48grns of the N110 behind the 300s (so throw away the yellow dippers that are in the Savage accessory kit). No wonder they were coming apart in heat. To be safe and simple (yet still sling em fast enough for the long shots) I dropped too 42.75grns and the 250s will touch at 100yds while still having enough gas for 300yd shots.

I use Winchester 210 shotgun primers. The CleanBore from Remington are not hot enough, they were reduced so that they would ignite cleaner when used with Triple 7 and Pyrodex. As a result of being less hot they have caused some ignition problems when used with the modern smokeless powders like we are using in the Savages. (Nothing dangerous, just likely to have a snapped cap and no BOOM in the moment of truth!)

Just within the last 12 months there has been alot more technology and wisdom gained with these guns and what they will do. The true experts with these guns who want to use 300+ grn bullets are doing so with the Vhitivouri N120 powder. And from what I have seen, when used in normal hunting conditions (below 70 degrees) most of the guys aren't recommending sub-bases anymore. I never did use them even when using the 300s and the hot load, the MMP heavy duty sabots (the black ones that come with the SSTs) are heavy enough to withstand the pressure. But there are some newer sabots on the market that some are toying with as well.

Do some searches under Henry Ball (the inventor of the guns) and Randy Wakeman. The sites that come up will tell you ALOT!
RA

www.randywakeman.com

 

[jimmyb]

thanks red!

dang, i spent most of the last weekend reading up on the ml10

i really, really want one... since our gun deer hunting is done for the year, i am going to look around for a used one. Lemme know if you see any! I would like to buy a used so i can throw some money towards a thumbhole stock and a nice scope mount system and scope (although i am limited to 1x power for scopes during our muzzleloader season in WI, i was thinking of buying two sets of scopes and mounts that will allow me to change from a magnified scope to a nonmaginfied quickly, depending on the season... since during the standard gun season, i can use a magnified scope on a muzzleloader)

 

[RedAllison]

Jimmy as long as you stick with a good quality, steel detachable setup you won't have ANY problems removing and replacing scopes. (Warne, Leupold QDs, Weaver Grand Slams, I say the Grand Slams because they are steel.) The first modern muzzleloader I ever bought was a lil ol Knight Wolverine that I got in the early 90s. The secret to keeping blackpowder guns clean is keeping them that way from the beginning. I put Warne QDs on it from the beginning and NEVER had a problem, including when I dropped it scope first on a rock while elk hunting in NM with it. That lil rifle got retired when I bought the Savage. But my oldest son will probably begin using it in another year or two.

I used to tell all my customers that THE CLEANEST the gun will ever be is when it comes out of the box for the first time. Trying to keep it that clean is a ALOT easier than letting it get dirty and then fighting that loosing battle from there on out. Part of my tips too them for keeping them clean was encouraging everyone to start out with quality quick disconnects. That way it allowed them to remove the scope each time they cleaned the rifle. Many people don't properly clean a blackpowder gun because they are afraid of messing up the scope. By taking it off, setting it aside and then cleaning the gun and then putting the scope back on when done, that allows for a THOROUGH cleaning and drying without the scope being in the way.

Obviously the Savage doesn't have to have QDs but I still went with them when I got mine a couple years ago. Some states don't allow scopes on MLs so that's one plus for the multi-state hunter. I wouldn't but you CAN shoot blackpowder in the Savage just like you would a TC, Knight etc. Again, removing the scope makes it easier to clean. And as in your case it would allow you to run two different scopes that would only have to be sighted in once. Then you could swap between them without worry of needing to resight.

Another consideration if you travel on a remote hunt is having TWO sighted in scopes ready for action. That way if you damage one scope you aren't out of a hunt, just switch out and keep rolling. If that Leupold would've busted on that dropped Knight in NM I would've had to remove it and shoot iron sights or quit hunting. With an extra scope it's "keep on truckin". On very remote hunts like in Canada, Alaska, Africa etc ANY rifle would do well to have QDs and twin scopes for the above reasons. An extra scope could save you from having to quit a multi-thousand dollar hunt, that's not being extravagant or arogant it's being SMART! (LOL and if you're in bear country with a rifle without iron sights it's being PRUDENT!)

I told you before I'd probably sell my Savage to replace it with another one with the newer bluing. I doubt that now, it would really be senseless and I'll eventually just have it T-coated anyway. But if I did sell it you'd be the first one I'd call. I haven't ever seen a used ML10II (stay away from the ML10 I, trust me you WANT the Accu-Trigger!) but you never know.

Good luck,
RA

 

[jimmyb]

yeah, i definately want the accutrigger... i have heard of a few used ones... i have time so, i will end up watching gun broker and gunsamerica and see what shows up.

2 scopes does sounds like a good setup to have, especially on a traveling trip... although, you probably should just have two guns... cant have enough guns now, can you?

 

[TODD2002]

red I got a ml10II and really love the gun. Man its nice to shoot a muzzleloader and not have to clean for an hour after. Hopefully I will get some time to try some new loads in it before next hunting season. Had a 160 class at 35 yards in ohio but couldn't get a clean shot with the bow. hope you had better luck.

 

[RedAllison]

Todd what load you shootin in it now?

I used to shoot the 300grn Hornady SST with a 48grns of Vithivouri N110 powder. But once the temp gets over 65-70 degrees the pressure got to high. I dropped back down too the 250 SST with 42.5grns N110 and it stills lays em down at 300yds.

But Barnes has some new bullets I'm gonna have to test and see what happens.

Simply the most awesome "smokeless pole" out there!
RA