prop shaft heights

Jus' Giv'r

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I know I've read this info many times, but thought I would post the question specific to my application. So here it goes.
Where would you recommend I run my prop shaft height?

Application = Grandsport / 280 / 20"offshore /26 Drag4 / hydr. jackplate / hydr.steering. (also have a 29srx by DAH that I have not tried with this set-up yet)

I tried to mark 3 points on the jackplate. 3/8" below the pad, even, 3/8 above the pad. Comments?

Also, not having laser equipment, I had the boat/trailer on a level surface ( I used a 4' level on the trailer frame). And then used the 4' level coming off the bottom of the pad back to the prop shaft. Then measured the difference. Is this ok?

Thanks for the help.
 

catfish123

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I believe one important thing that sometimes is overlooked ibefore answering a question like this is, what height in thousandths of an inch is the lip on your pad? I have found this can make a big difference in optimum motor height.
 

Jus' Giv'r

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I believe one important thing that sometimes is overlooked ibefore answering a question like this is, what height in thousandths of an inch is the lip on your pad? I have found this can make a big difference in optimum motor height.
OMG....that is getting technical....lol. I just know its a stock lip in exc condition.
 

ziemer

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Just be sure the surface you're measuring from is indeed level. If it's inside a garage, it's probably not level. (A normal garage floor will drop around 1/8" per foot)

How much total setback? Stock sporty? If you're around 10" +/- start at around a 1/4" below and go up from there...where were you with the ProMax?

I know I've read this info many times, but thought I would post the question specific to my application. So here it goes.
Where would you recommend I run my prop shaft height?

Application = Grandsport / 280 / 20"offshore /26 Drag4 / hydr. jackplate / hydr.steering. (also have a 29srx by DAH that I have not tried with this set-up yet)

I tried to mark 3 points on the jackplate. 3/8" below the pad, even, 3/8 above the pad. Comments?

Also, not having laser equipment, I had the boat/trailer on a level surface ( I used a 4' level on the trailer frame). And then used the 4' level coming off the bottom of the pad back to the prop shaft. Then measured the difference. Is this ok?

Thanks for the help.
 

catfish123

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Just think about this.......a 4 ft level from the "pad" back to the shaft is actually being deflected downwards quite a bit in that distance because it is being deflected downwards by resting on both the actual pad and the lip. I love these discussions............LOL
 

Jus' Giv'r

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I used the 4' level beisde the bottom of the pad so as to not include the lip.
Also, I have about 12" set-back.
 

whipper

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If your at around even with the pad works for lots of props. Some like it higher some like it lower. Its realy a seat of your pants and GPS reading. If your even or 1/4 below I would just start testing there. You can start by having a round about base line for pitch and setup rpm ranges to be with in based on 7-9% slip to be safe. Say your speed on a set up like yours with a 26 at 8000rpm 1.87 gears and 7% is suposted to do around 98MPH. Start at 1/4 below and try to get close as you can without going to poss on the trim. If your RPM increases and your GPS speed doesnt go up, your one or two bumps to possitive for your trim at that hight and reached only say 94mph? If all felt cozzy and the bow wasnt doing anything like dropping to one side or starting to lower try raiseing the engine one more bump and try it again. The key is to not over trim and knowing were nutral trim is. Its good to know from all down how many bumps it takes to reach nutral. Mine is 14 to nutral and a fast hole shot is 8 bumps from down were it doesnt take but two or three more be on the pad at over 70. From there its finess and feel untill my rpm goes up a hair and my speed doesnt. Then I know thats max for that hight above the pad and Im just starting to surface the prop to much creating to much slip. Im going out tomorrow and testing a prop this way again. Once I get to know what the top speed with just me in the boat and were the engine hight is maximized I write it in my little book I keep onboard incase I forget. This way I know that at this hight with this prop I go X mph under perfict conditions and can ussuslly duplicat the top speed to tee most any time. If its hotter out or water temp are higher humid ect.. then I expect a little slower by a mph or so and dont bother trying to get there on those days.

Just be safe and go about it methaticaly as long as your comfortable. If your not feeling good about it then your probably at the wrong hight.
Test each prop starting from the same base line each time untill you find the spot your comfy with and just stay there for a while. On a brave day you might try to top that speed in the spring or late fall when temps are lower. But generaly I try to get close to what the expected speeds are for a given pitch at a conservitive hight. Ive found 7% seems to be the norm but have a few props with less but none with more slip than 7.

This my plan for tommorow. Ive got a 28 drag4 to try. Im expecting around 7200RPM. I have 1.87 gears with 7% slip I should be getting 94.9 out of it. The lake is at 2300ft above sea level so I subtract 5% for altidude. Ill try it first at even with the pad because I know that drags can handle higher shaft hights. Ill try and get to 85 then one bump at a time and holding it letting the speed build each time before i bump it again. When I notice the rpm go up and the speed stop Ill back off. If my speed was only say 88MPH Ill raise the motor a bump then try again the same way. Ill try and get to were the rpm goes up and the speed doesnt again or if I reach 7200 rpm and am going 90 before this happens Ill be happy with that and call it a wrap. Note were I had every thing so next time I use that prop I know what the limitations are. Ive had some props were I am 3/4 above the pad and they feel good. And some like stock trophys that need to be 1/4 below to even at the highst or they are slower. The cup, diamiter and a lot more play a role in were your prop shaft hight should be.

The bottom line is highest hight with nutral trim and max speed equals perfection. Youll go threw 10 props to find one sometimes that accually meet this critiria. Be extra safe with your 280 and only go as fast as you feel comfortable with. Dont expect to run 104 untill your comfortable at 100 a hole bunch of times. Speed is relitive. You get used to it and always want more.:banghead
 

catfish123

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Great post Whipper, well thought out, and the most important part of the message is to be careful, take it slow while attempting to go faster, learn the signs of things going wrong before they do. When slip numbers start getting pretty high for whatever reason, it is reason for concern because the prop is losing it's bite and at some point, it will no longer be able to carry the bow.
 

ziemer

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Don't get scared when you approach 100 and the bow lays over (that'll be when the lip is starting to work)...just give it another bump. :beer:
 

whipper

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Don't get scared when you approach 100 and the bow lays over (that'll be when the lip is starting to work)...just give it another bump. :beer:
:big grin Jeff is it true that 104 feels better than 100. 100 is that awkward spot in a GS correct? Ive only been 95 with my 225 but one day Ill get a bigga mota.:cool Giv,rs just got a 280 with 260 electronic I believe she is. All fresh and ready to rumble. Well just threw the 28 drag on, gota go fuel up its finaly 80 deg F hear and need a tan bad!! Looks like a fun in the sun weekend better get started.
 

ziemer

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:big grin Jeff is it true that 104 feels better than 100. 100 is that awkward spot in a GS correct?
Not necessarily...It's just that around 98-100 the lip starts affecting the a$$ end, and the bow will lay down. It's not violent and it doesn't feel out of shape, it just softly lays down. You can feel it coming and as it goes down, it needs another bump of trim. Sometimes, mine will also want to lay over on it's side, but just a tweak of the wheel fixes that. :big grin
 

procomp

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Weird because I notice the lip in the mid 70s as my set up is not that fast yet.

Unlike an STV you can't set the trim at idle and fly out to top end without touching it
It gets to flighty in the mid range if you leave the trim where you left it after a top end run.

Maybe its my set up by I find I keep trimming up and then its running nice and flat and then it hits a speed and the bow drops a bit and it take s little more trim to get it back to that sweet spot. If that makes sense.
 

whipper

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Weird because I notice the lip in the mid 70s as my set up is not that fast yet.

Unlike an STV you can't set the trim at idle and fly out to top end without touching it
It gets to flighty in the mid range if you leave the trim where you left it after a top end run.

Maybe its my set up by I find I keep trimming up and then its running nice and flat and then it hits a speed and the bow drops a bit and it take s little more trim to get it back to that sweet spot. If that makes sense.
Yep that makes sence but these guys are running the next step up from our setups. Ziemer and Givr have way faster boats than ours and do over a hundred with smaller wheels. Ziemers is a 260 and Giver,s is a 280. They feel the lip also like all of them at at around 70 but what I think hes saying is the lip as in just the lip in the water at those speeds design wise isthe apitamy of the cutting edge and limitations of the design. They are designed to run 100 with the stock lip and take a set thats flat. The only way to get those speeds is flat because the bow design of the GS gets flighty over 100 and the wind resistance has a big affect if the bow dosent lay down. The keel from what Ive seen is very low to the water at 100+ compared to ours in the 90,s with the bigger wheels. There able to get 100+ with a 26 pitch prop or smaller!! That makes a big differance also in sturnlift and drivability. The wheels we need to get into the 90,s must be 27-30 depending on rpm limitts. Todd told me the GS at faster speeds with the smaller wheels feels way nicer to drive with a 260 over the 225. The 260 is a sweet mate for the GS. The 280 also with the 260 electronics rocks about the same as the 260.

Its like this. 225 on a GS is like a Camero/Mustang GT on the water.
260-280 on a GS is like a Lamborgini!!:big grin A little more cutting edge.
 

Jus' Giv'r

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Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the info. Just what we were looking for. My sons and I will play as you say.....
So far, speeds up to 94 seem fairly easy to accomplish with the 26 drag 4. Straight and smooth!!
But this is where the set-up is key. We also can't say enough about the new hyd steering. We did get the 6345 cylinder and we think it makes the boat easier to drive.
I'll let you know the results. And yes, the new Lifelines arrived!
 

whipper

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Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the info. Just what we were looking for. My sons and I will play as you say.....
So far, speeds up to 94 seem fairly easy to accomplish with the 26 drag 4. Straight and smooth!!
But this is where the set-up is key. We also can't say enough about the new hyd steering. We did get the 6345 cylinder and we think it makes the boat easier to drive.
I'll let you know the results. And yes, the new Lifelines arrived!
Sounds good. Youve got the 260 electronics on your 280 right?
 
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