New to me xb2002 and some questions

[Npark]

First time to the board, want to thank you guys in advance for any info.

I recently bought Bracks gorgeous 2002. I also found a really clean never blown up or welded 280ss. It has about 10hours since being freshened up by Diamond at which time they did some light cleanup in the chest, top pinned pistons, carbon reeds and some other small stuff. We will be in the process of getting it rigged soon, so I would like to get some opinions on a few things that I'll have to opportunity to change...mainly steering.

Hydraulic or cable? I've read a few threads on this and it seems like there are varying opinions based on personal preference but also based on hull design. The boat is currently cable but I will have to buy a few parts that are staying with Don's Mariner. This makes me want to consider is now the time to change? I've driven Mr Glenn's boat that had cable steering without any issues but would a 2002 with a 280ss be happier or safer with hydraulic. Also what else will I need to change? Found something about trim switch? Do you have to ditch the wheel mounted switch when going hydraulic?

The other question is about the LU. The new engine has a sporty with the fat shaft. I'm seeing a lot of the used Ally props are for a small shaft. Don told me about not being able to weld a SM if you damage something where as you can do that on a 200 case. Any other pros and cons to one over the other case?

I have a long learning curve coming out of a Stroker. I will not be pushing it until the conditions and my abilities allow but very excited!!

 

[scj]

I'd go hydraulic on the steering and you'll have to go to blinker type trim switches which is a good thing IMO. You'll also have to buy a new steering wheel for the new helm mount.
Props can ne bought easy enough for either size shaft......

Congrats on the new ride!!!

 

[GotMyAlly]

Agree with above on the hydraulic steering. That would be the only choice for me, unless I was setting up a dedicated race boat. Blinker type trim switches are nice. Go ahead and get the dual ones. Use one for jackplate and one for trim if you have a hydraulic plate. If not, both can be wired into the trim.

I believe you can get an adapter to keep the existing wheel, unless you just want a new steering wheel.

Many of the newer props being made today are set up for a flo-torque hub. The fixed small shaft props you're seeing are probably mostly older props. Nothing wrong with that, just as long as you know what you're looking at.

Lastly, I wouldn't run a gearcase with a welded skeg, be it either a sporty or a 200 case. JMHO. I'd keep the sporty with the fat shaft.

 

[Npark]

Thanks for the info guys. This helps me ease my mind on spending money to change the setup of a boat I haven't even driven yet lol.

Where would I get this steering wheel adapter if I wanted to use the stock wheel? Call Allison?

 

[GotMyAlly]

It's a Grant part #.

http://www.grantproducts.com/products/browse/installation-kits/marine/

3650 or 3655, depending on how far you want to space the wheel out from the hub.

 

[Npark]

Thank you

 

[90 5.0]

Pros and cons for the cases on that hull.

Sportsmaster will be most durable

Coned 200 case will be slightly faster and drive slightly easier but the sm will drive fine.

Go hydraulic with the steering and blinker trim as others have said.

Congrats and have fun!!

 

[bassracr]

congratulations on buying a super nice boat. Don keeps his stuff top notch. i am going to give you a little different perspective. I have an xb2002. i have a sportmaster with cables. My cables are nice ,free smooth like they should be. I sent my sportmaster to Robbie Patterson to do his "allison" modifications to it. the skeg is cut back like a 200 , profiled to decrease torque steer .welded up one water inlet , blunted the nose. and maybe more...these are some things i noticed when i got it back. it steers,handles,drives great. easy to handle ,good feedback etc.. I have owned this boat for over 20 years and if i thought i would need,or like a hydraulic setup better, i would buy it and it would be on my boat. I like having the trim on the wheel and operating with my thumb,and would not want it any other way. Now that you have the boat in your possession, You can see the care that that Don took in maintaining the condition of the boat and all its accessories,rigging, etc. Because of that, I would assume the wheel turns nice and smooth with the cables working just like they should .I would guess if Brack thought he would like hydraulic better , it would already be on the boat. Maybe you should have a conversation with him and get his thoughts and recommendation on this matter. he knows the boat better than anyone and will give you sound,honest, well informed advice.

 

[Npark]

Thank you, I'm excited for sure. Yes, Don does keep his stuff immaculate!! When I saw the boat in February I told him I wanted to buy it. He was nice enough to call me (Easter Sunday no less!!) when he posted it for sale.

It was a no brainier to me, just not going to find a cleaner 2002 IMO.

Bassrcr - I'm sure you are right about the steering being top notch because it was setup and maintained by him. I think what got me inquiring is Don was keeping his motor and I was going to have to buy some of the cable steer pieces anyway.

I appreciate the info from you and 90 5.0 on the case too.

 

[GotMyAlly]

What bassracr said about working the gearcase applies regardless of whether you go hydraulic or cable steering. Steering torque is still noticeable even with hydraulic -- even though it can't feed back, you can tell the wheel is harder to turn one way than the other. (Think of a hydraulic floor jack...it's much harder to pump the handle when there's a vehicle on it). When you tweak on the Sportmaster, a lot of that is eased up. And the boat just feels more locked in. The end result is that the boat takes smaller inputs to balance on the pad afterwards. I've tested this twice. Once with my first XB03 and once with this XB21. In both situations, I had ran a stock sporty for a year or two prior to working it, so I was very familiar with the handling before, and changed nothing else in the setup other than cleaning up the sportmaster. When I did the work on the one I have now, I didn't pick up any speed...but then again, I was already running pretty near the limits of my rig, but it felt a lot safer at that speed.

 

[Npark]

What bassracr said about working the gearcase applies regardless of whether you go hydraulic or cable steering. Steering torque is still noticeable even with hydraulic -- even though it can't feed back, you can tell the wheel is harder to turn one way than the other. (Think of a hydraulic floor jack...it's much harder to pump the handle when there's a vehicle on it). When you tweak on the Sportmaster, a lot of that is eased up. And the boat just feels more locked in. The end result is that the boat takes smaller inputs to balance on the pad afterwards. I've tested this twice. Once with my first XB03 and once with this XB21. In both situations, I had ran a stock sporty for a year or two prior to working it, so I was very familiar with the handling before, and changed nothing else in the setup other than cleaning up the sportmaster. When I did the work on the one I have now, I didn't pick up any speed...but then again, I was already running pretty near the limits of my rig, but it felt a lot safer at that speed.

Some great information here, from all of you. That helps me paint a good overall picture. I'm coming from the Stroker world so there are some similarities however not many of the Stroker guys work the cases. Anything I can do to make it more stable I'm down for. This boat is like balancing on motorcycle tires instead of the 335 steamrollers of a Stroker.

 

[GotMyAlly]

Strokers run with the motor way above the pad, compared to an Allison. I would assume that additional height is why the gearcase mods might not have as much impact on the Strokers.

 

[90 5.0]

Strokers and bullets both run higher prop to pad than allisons. But don't think that's because the case is actually higher out of the water it's not.

Strokers run a lot of set back, because of the angle of attack when running if left the same the further back you went the lower the case would be in the water. Thus you must raise the case to get the same come to watwr relative height.

Allisons have a lip on the pad, this raises the back end while running and provide a flatter but overall higher boat to water relation on the back end.

I ran my Allison typically 1/4" above pad, there is a line on my Lu where it runs in the water, basically half the case split.

When I finished setting up my bullet I was @ 1.5 above typically with most fishing props.

Guess what? The line of clean didn't move much maybe a tiny bit. This tells me that @ optimal set up night my Allison @ 1/4" above had the exact same cone to water relationship as my bullet does @ 1.5" above.

My Allison ran flatter with the rear higher where my bullet runs more nose up with the back dug down lower in the water.

When guys shave the lip off of allisons they basically make it drive like a bullet and have to raise the motor to get proper cone to water relationship. Thus setting the back down in the water lower when flying.

 

[Npark]

Interesting info on the Bullet vs Ally case/water line as well as what the lip does on the Ally. Never quite understood it's purpose, thanks. I guess that's why you hear that Ally's like to run flat.

This is all good info on the running dynamics, I appreciate it.

You are right about the transom angle pushing the motor deeper into the water the further back you go. Not to turn this into a Stroker thread but you also have the water swell from the pad pushing the water down. As you push the engine back further the "swell" gets higher allowing you to raise the engine more in relation to the pad.

I'm excited to learn the Ally stuff. Will definitely be doing a gear case mod at some point, just want to learn how to drive it first!!

So on the removing the lip thing; If you remove the lip and it runs stern deep couldn't you run a prop that crests more stern lift and still have it run like a Ally instead of a Bullet?

 

[90 5.0]

I've tried it's still not the same.

It's all personal preference but I would never shave the lip off an Allison.

I've actually thought about going the other way and me and plum krazy Kevin have actually discussed putting a 2003 pad under my bullet.

My hull is blue printed and it runs a bit flatter than most bullets and typically likes props that work well on a 2003 more compared to what peoe normally run on a bullet.

 

[GotMyAlly]

It's all personal preference but I would never shave the lip off an Allison.

x2!

 

[Npark]

So can you blueprint the pad without shaving the lip?

 

[GotMyAlly]

Yes, the pad can be blueprinted without shaving the lip.
Are you thinking about having the factory blueprint the pad, or having a 3rd party do it?

 

[Npark]

I haven't thought that far out just yet, as I don't have the boat in my possession and haven't even driven it lol. It's purchased along with the 280ss and we hope to marry them together here soon...that is if Brack doesn't convince me to sell him my 280 and keep his Mariner .

I am inquiring in ideas as I like the concept of a blueprinted pad. Any suggestions or things to steer away from by you guys?

 

[03bignasty]

Hopefully I can help. I've had a bullet, 6 strokers and my new to me xb2002. The allison accelerates like a monster up to 90 mph. There is no boat that comes close. That said, you trim much less than the stroker or even the bullet. When applying trim you only touch it and wait for sped to stop climbing. lol be safe and enjoy it!