Need TRU input!!

[bullistic]

One ov tha main problems iz when Roy ask's sumbody what he needs, or what hiz problem mite be, He git's all this bullchit about what he should do, and theze BIG numbers he should be runn'in...He haz been told crap like his se up should be runn'in well over a hunnerd!!!....Bahh Humbug.....Also he'z been told to sand tha lip off tha pad, COMPLETLY....Bah Humbug......Put more setback....etc....It information like this that confuzes tha man, and frustrates him when it won't do what he thanks it should(what people tell him)...

SORRY that you feel ALL the info you are getting is total BS and as far as sandin the lip off the pad alot of people have done it and it has helped hank and chads both have been sanded
and the suggestion of movin the motor in had been made 2 month ago as a matter of fact I still have the motor hoist in my truck that we were going to use at concordia to move the motor in

once again sorry for all the misleadin info
jeff

 

[jaybluez]

I'm sure you were just tryin to help, comparing his rig to others out there. Fact is each one of these has it's own characteristics. Each man carries a different load in different areas and as everyone knows these boats are sensitive to weight. When my dad and I tested his xb03, I drove the boat 2mph faster than he did. Both of us in the boat at the same time, he is 35#s heavier than I am and when he was up front he was 2mph slower than when I was up front piloting the boat. I think that 80mph is a little slow for Roy's setup but who knows how much of a load he's got in there. Who knows how much of his lip has just been worn down over the years or has been tampered with and is not up to specs. I probably have the slowest xb02 out there with a 225 but I'm very happy with my boat and don't have to worry about my hull ever busting. I have ample storage as I added compartments in the front deck and all of them are FULL!!! I fish and it serves my purpose and serves it well. To eek everything these rigs have out of them takes TIME and MONEY and time I have, money I don't. With an arsenal of wheels, less tackle, fewer batteries, and have the hull fondled by the Allison's I'm sure I could post 95 to 100mph speeds but right now I'm ony running 88gps, with all my tackle, full fuel, 3 batteries and my partner. Sorry for getting off the subject somewhat but I know with time the speed will come. I know some guys are running high 90's and low 100's loaded to the gills but then again they probably have put in more time than I would want to but to each his own. Maybe there's nothing wrong with Roy's setup, maybe it's just that a gps can't catch up with the boat in south louisiana!:laughing

 

[T-REX]

Jeff, everbody iz out to help, and Thats great, BUT U know that when a bunch ov HP boaters are gathered, and one is have'in problems(or maybe juss thank he'z have'in problems)...Tha stories run rampid!!....U, az most on this board, and everbody deep into HP bote's, KNOW that what works for one boat DON'T NESS WORK for anuther ov idenikle description!!!....A 27 trophy may be tha ticket for Leroy's 2003 wit a 225 PM, but a 27trophy won't fall out a tree on Lucy's 2003 wit a 225 3liter, or a 225 omc!!!......Ever bote iz an animal ov it'z own, and haz to be set up az such...BUT, suggestions are a big help when doing it, but all the suggestions, and stories haz to be weighed, and seperate tha facts from fiction, and use common set up sense az to what mite work, and what iz a total NO-NO!!...

I didn't start this to piss anybody off, or put blame on anybody for info that wuz wrong, or didn't work...I started this thread to help Roy git hiz bote lined out tha way it should be...I am not a A-bote expert, never claim'd to be, and don't want to be, and that iz why I posted this over here...I know a lot ov these guyz and exspected a truthfull, and helpfull responce from them...I figger'd if'in Roy seen in write'in, from 2003 owners, he could put to rest thoze 100+mph stories!!!....Roy stepp'd up from a Nitro wit a V-4 to hiz A-bote, so he'z turn'd a new page in boat'n...He haz boat'in buds that all have differnt rigs, and all are differnt for numbers...I kinna feel he is dissapointed kuz hiz 2003 won't run wit Franks 110mph, 2002 W/280:shock:...Differnt animals!!!.....Hell, I thunk all theze bassbotes wuz FISH'IN botes????....Go fish'in an buy a race bote ta play wit!!!:smile

ONE OTHER QUESTION ON THIS SET UP!!!!....Roys geercase haz NO torque tab....will tha affect the handling on a 2003 like it doez on smaller boats???

Juss fer tha record, Royz A-bote outrun my Big REX...So see, hiz Abote haz possibilities!!:beer:

 

[baitcaster]

Maybe there's nothing wrong with Roy's setup, maybe it's just that a gps can't catch up with the boat in south louisiana!:laughing

:laughing:laughing:laughing

Jay the quest for speed has been both costly and time consuming indeed. I really don't expect and never felt my boat should run 100mph. That comment was exaggerated - I don't think anyone ever actually heard me say such a thing. Personally I really don't have the desire to run that fast in this rig, nor the money to do it. My goal was to simply get the boat to perform in accordance with norms. TRex was simply trying to make a point that there has been so much conflicting information and nothing seems to really have had an impact when initiated. In fact the boat simply continues to run slower and slower. Personally I have appreciated all of the advice and tried to make use of it. Jeff and Hank have been a great in helping me look at this rig on multiple levels - such as steering system, set up and yes a little bling bling as well. But too few actually have OMCs on these rigs. I concur with them that the set back is too much and it seems to be one of the norm opinions noted here. But when I called Allison on Monday I was told that I should go back to 14" rather than move it forward?????? Though he may have exaggerated it some, I think that is what Trex was trying to make a point of. I am not sure what to do about the set back though. To change it may be costly, but efforts will be made to modify my current set-back-jack to reduce the distance some and try and maintain height. Just not sure how I will do it though. The main reason for TRex making this post is that my machanic called him in to drive the boat after initiating some mods and the boat did not improve in it's performance. The issue or question was "what is the performance norm" where is the "base line." Is the boat currently performing well "?" and are we shooting for an unrealistic goal (which I believed should be between 88 and 91). So I guess rex wanted to get the faxs from the experts - you guys.

Nobody need take any offence. No one who ever put in their two cents have been thought badly of, at least not by me. Personally, I am a little frustrated by not getting close to my quest. I didn't think running 80 was a correct performance level for my boat, but I may be wrong - regardless, I really love my boat and if that is what it should do than so be it.

However, I have told myself a hundred times I wish I had a Merc, but the fact is I don't and who knows if I had a Merc I may still be facing the same issues. "These are the cards I have been dealt, so to speak, and I have tried my best to play the hand that I have." If successful, I may have even broke a little new ground.

Thank you all for your insight and expertise. Your comments and more importantly your friendship/kinship has been extremely valuable to me and are very appreciated.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas!

 

[baitcaster]

Rex, a torq tab was added and on the boat when you last drove it. This mod was added with the solid mota mounts. Thanks for your post. AND no, I do not want to run side by side with Frank and his 280 or Hank and his 300, if that occurred I would be posting for Guinness in his world record books :laughing. My quest has been as you initiated in this post "what is a realistic one" and appreciate your help.:beer:

 

[baitcaster]

Rex, by the way; I iz not sure, but I haz heard that a bass can swim 150 mph, us bassin boat boyz is just trying to close the gap,:laughing:laughing:laughing:laughing.....va-room. LOL

 

[GotMyAlly]

One thing I can tell you from experience....you can't take a little bits of advice from 4 or 5 guys with different setups and piece them together. There are so many ways to make one of these boats run, but you can't mix & match ideas, if that makes any sense.

You got one guy over here running 6" setback, 2" above the pad, and no pad lip. Another guy runs 14" setback, even with the pad, and a stock lip. Both work in their own right, but mix and match ideas and you end up with 14" setback and 2" above the pad and you 'bout to see why rex callz 'em hookerz.

Find somebody with a similar rig to yours, that drives like you want yours to handle in the end, and mirror your setup as close to theirs as you can.



Play with some different props, too (if you haven't already). You can take two identical hulls and two seemingly identical props and they'll perform differently when you swap 'em. For carryin' a load, the over/thru props seem to run better on mine, but some guys swear by over hubs.

 

[fishnfireman]

I think Neal hit the nail on the head with his last post !!!!!!!!!!!!!

After reading these last few pages.

My suggestion would be.
First and formost ( the pad ) IF it has been worked on......At least get it back to Spec.. and start from there,..
Also I was not clear about the torque tab.....A 2003 will be hard to run anywhere near its potential with cable steering....If it does not have The right torque tab..

That was one of the main reasons Darris did the "Allison " mods on a SPmaster

 

[Fishforcash]

I cant help one bit about setting a 03 up or what to do. All I can say is gearcase design plays a HUGE factor in how a boat handles. You can sand on the pad, move the motor in/out all day long, do all the engine mods in the world but if the gearcase isnt flowing through the water correctly your going to have problems.

You could be looking in the wrong direction with this setup. Its all trial and error with these things. There had been TONS of R&D on these hulls to give baselines but your dealing with a odd animal, a OMC on an Allison so some baselines might not be correct on this combo. Not that there is anything wrong with this combo, its just not the same as most (Mercs on Allisons).

 

[baitcaster]

One thing I can tell you from experience....you can't take a little bits of advice from 4 or 5 guys with different setups and piece them together. There are so many ways to make one of these boats run, but you can't mix & match ideas, if that makes any sense.

You got one guy over here running 6" setback, 2" above the pad, and no pad lip. Another guy runs 14" setback, even with the pad, and a stock lip. Both work in their own right, but mix and match ideas and you end up with 14" setback and 2" above the pad and you 'bout to see why rex callz 'em hookerz.



Find somebody with a similar rig to yours, that drives like you want yours to handle in the end, and mirror your setup as close to theirs as you can.



Play with some different props, too (if you haven't already). You can take two identical hulls and two seemingly identical props and they'll perform differently when you swap 'em. For carryin' a load, the over/thru props seem to run better on mine, but some guys swear by over hubs.

gotmyally: Not sure that some of that makes sense for me. I am not disagreeing and I understand what you are saying, but quite frankly I haven't found anyone who is running a similar rig/set-up to mimic :banghead. So everything has been a trial and error situation and most seemingly were errors.

Some of the positives were the steering, I changed from cable to hydraulic and love it. Thanks HD/Bullistic. Adding solid mota mounts - just plain smart - need I say more. Thank you Larry for possiably saving my life.

The lower unit was outfitted with a Bob's Nosecone - don't know if it is hurting or helping. I had it with a Bob's torq tab and now with an aftermarket bolt on tab. A Sport-Master lower unit isn't a realistic option. OMC does not offer a performance lower unit outside of the lighting gear case, which may not have accepted true lower water pickup. Thus, we went back with the original style. The Lighting case still has it's pick-up above the gear case. To add a Sportee would have been paramount to buying a new motor - cost wise - to mount on an OMC. A different Gear ratio was also not an option from OMC. They do not offer a 1:67, etc. They make two a 1:86 or a 1:2.

The set back is a continuous issue and it has been moved forward and back as well as caped within it's functional realm to no avail.

A variety of props have been tried, but I have not covered the gambit. Not to many people have a prop that will fit an OMC hub. The following have been tried: A four blade 27 Renegade, a 29 SRX (both worked and un-worked), a 27 SRX (worked twice), a 29 four blade ET (both worked and un-worked), a 24 three blade performer and a 28 HOSS three blade. Of all of them the 29 SRX had run the fastest, but is not performing the same anymore; the 27 Renegade had the best hole shot, but does not carry the bow well, especially under any kind of a load and was slow around 77 mph. The 29 ET had the best handling and mid-range, but at the 6000 RPM my rig is pushing ran right at 80. That prop has since been put on a 300hp and sings. I plan to try a few others, but when I have to buy to try it gets a bit expensive.

Shaving the pad lip was in an effort to get a little more lift. The mod was extremely minimal, thus extreme caution was used not to overdue it. I have not noticed any notable change from the mod one way or the other . If I recall correctly aprox. 20 thousands was removed.

Well I hope that give a little more info to shove in the mind blender unch. Thanks for the responces.

 

[badbait]

There is a guy Hank Lott in South Alabama running a motor that is the same weight as yours. You might want to speak with him because I think he's quite happy with his setup. He is (HDL) on the board.

 

[Myron]

you can get a hub kit so you can use Mercury props on an OMC, they are not to expensive

 

[RedAllison]

Man I'm just takin a stab here because the only SLOMC I've jacked with is on my deckboat.

But takin some of the lip off, I'm not sure that would INCREASE lift. To hear Darris talk it would do quite the opposite.

Just looking at the pics, I would move the plate all the way in and go from there. Also looking at the nosecone. Looks awfully sharp. Perhaps rounding that cone might settle it down? Darris has always said that sharp cones AREN'T needed.

Propwise, I think you might be surprised at what you might would find with a Hydromotive QIV O/T. It'll REALLY lift the stern, carry the load and if in fact that gearcase IS working then it should allow the rig to take a set and show you her potential. Height wise, I just don't see any reason to run a 03 much above 1/2" above pad. At least I wouldn't think .020" removal of the lip would make that much of a difference regarding gearcase height.

What do you realistically think you can turn a 27"-29" prop? With 1.86 gears you're gonna HAVE to turn those props nearly 7K to get into the 90s. If the motor only turns 6K then you're STUCK in the upper 70s-lower 80s.

SURE you don't wanna think about a ProMax or 2.5? Shonuff would be easier and faster... :beer:
RA

ps
Yeah Myron is right, ANY prop with a Flo-Torq hub is a simple bolt on with a OMC hub kit. All the Mercury and Hmotive props built in the last 5-7 years or so have the F-T Hub in it.

 

[Myron]

I really don't know why people want to sand the lip off the pad on the 2003, it was put there for a reason, to help carry weight, that being said, from my experience it only has adverse effects of the lip does not come into play untill about 103 or so, I am sure that there is not a lot of 2003's running those speeds every day. I would think that boat should run mid to upper 80's if things are correct and the driver knows what he is doing.

 

[hack02]

I'm with Red on the rpm's. With 1.86 gears that motor is gonna have to spin for more speed, that or a taller prop. 80 at 6000 rpm's is probably about right. Without rereading this thread, and I may be wrong, but it seems like the rig slowed down a little when the gearcase was changed. Has the torgue tab been glassed in, or is it just one of the riveted on types? I think most of the 03 guys like their shafts right around a quarter below to even, gotta get that big case out of the water for speed and to let the hull work like its supposed too. Another thing, A boats run best at neutral to just a hair positive trim. Level the pad and the propshaft and mark where the trim is on the guage, if you have one. Run the boat wide open and see where your at for trim. I havn't mess with different setbacks in a while but if memory serves me if you have to use alot of positive trim you need more setback and vice versa. If you have too much you will run a little negative just to keep the bow down. How many batteries in the boat. Three big ones in the stern could be scrubbing speed. Is water entering the livewell? Fuel filters clean, getting plenty of fuel on top end? Make sure you keep Rex away from the orange paint when he's around your boat and good luck.

 

[T-REX]

Make sure you keep Rex away from the orange paint when he's around your boat and good luck.

Hell, I dun toll Roy tha only way dat slug could buss 90 wuz ta paint it orange!!!!.....Then he could set hiz site on a hunnerd by hang'in a CHIZLER on back!!!!:laughing


I appreciate all U guyz responses(even RA, kuz we all no he don't no much:banghead)....I quess I'll juss have ta stick wit my ole EASY drive'in Laser's!!!!.....I dun figg'rd out if'in ya want fish, go buy'um already cook'd...If ya want a Fass bote, BUY A LASER:gasp...

Lookz like ya'll got ole Roy hed'd in tha rite direction now......So everbody have a good Christmas an Maybe I'll have tha "lil Hooker" ready fer tha nex Abote rally so I kin visit all U "Hook'r" boyz!!!!.....Piece out!!

 

[jaybluez]

To all, if I sounded offended I'm far from it. I wanted to make the point that the boats are not all the same and like Neal said what works for one guy won't work for another. Everyone knows how much effort it takes to squeeze the absolute max out of these boogers. Once again brudda, happy hunting on those lost mph. You're gonna find 'em. Happy Holidays and remember ole Jaybluez when ya sippin on sum sudzz, he's stuck out in da Guf ov Mehico pullin some earl and gasss out da gron fer awl to burn in deez hotrod bateaus!

 

[Yellowallison]

I really don't know why people want to sand the lip off the pad on the 2003,

So that the boat doesn't try stickin the nose at speeds over 100+... :cool

to help carry weight,

YES!!! only work on pad,lip,strakes if you plan on running light and top end

that being said, from my experience it only has adverse effects of the lip does not come into play untill about 103 or so,

True!!

 

[HDL]

First of all Roy, you ain't got the motor high enough to feel the effects of what LITTLE we sanded.
Second, your motor isn't spinning up enough probably because it ain't high enough.
Third, good luck with your quest for more speed brother. Look forward to drinkin some more suds with you and Shannon soon.
I'm done.:at the bar

 

[baitcaster]

Thanks everyone appreciate the posts, comments and suggestions.

FYI: Last night I got a call from Larry my machanic asking me to come out to the shop - he found a problem. He found what might have played a big part in the performance issue. The staider is going bad. Three of the coils are burnt. It still has conductivity, but it is causing the ome meter to run ramped. The staider had gotten so hot that it is melting the plastic on it. Larry feels that this may have very well caused the engine to begin running slower and slower as possible timing and much more likely (or both) the engine was not firing properly as it slowly began to fail. Extra fuel was also found in the heads that wasn't burning. :beating dead horse Can it get any worse! The answer is yes.

When it rains it pours: Two of the gages went out on the last test run "?" when we tried to test one of them - the hydraulic trim, we noted that all of the sudden when you move the hydraulic lift down fluid begins pouring out of the bottom seal :very sad.

We are going to have to address these issues first and see where we stand. Eventually we will get this thing right and it will be one hell of a rig - :cool