Leaking UFP "GOLD" hub...

[RobShaw-BasSport]

I know RA has had this issue and he posted some great info on the tow rig boards.

On Saturday, I noticed a puddle of oil beneath my left rear wheel (the wheel with the brakes...coincidence?). I had a buddy flying in from Japan with a promised fishing trip to Kerr on Monday. After about 50 different phone calls to all of the trailer and boat places I could think of, I realized that nobody in town carries the seals or any other parts.

I ended up converting that hub to grease as a quick fix for the fishing trip. We drove nearly 300 miles round trip with absolutely no issues nor any noticeable heat build-up on the hub. It appears that the rear seal in question is good enough for the grease but wasnt for the oil...

Anyway, another problem I have is that I fish brackish tidal waters. The hex head drain screw on the hub is rusted to the point that I would have to use easy outs to remove them all. Im wondering if I should convert them all to grease? The drawback that I see is that these spindles are solid so the only way to add grease would be to disassemble the hub and repack. Any thoughts?

 

[RedAllison]

Knock on wood I haven't had any more problems with my Gold system after replacing that front right seal and bearings/races lastyear as well as switching to 50W Royal Purple. Sounds like your drain plugs are toast, I know they harp on using RTV sealant EVERYTIME you remove/replace them and I've done just that, but obviously I aint in brackish water.

After studying the system I like the idea of using grease in it because of the inner-seal arrangement with that lip on it and the groove it rides in that is machined into the spindle. Only thing you would have to replace is the hub cover, a simple replacement with a regular Bearing Buddy or a RedEye (which I've found to be better than the BBs) would make for a pretty neat setup as far as I can tell. With the slight pressure inside the grease should be able to move inside the hub so I doubt you'd have any problems with the inner bearings running dry.

The replacement system for the Gold is the "Vault" and it basically is the same system except they put in a heavier weight hybrid lube in it and did away with the drain hole (which I DON'T like the idea of). To replace/add fluid you have to pop the hub cover off and add it in that way, like lopping a big ol pat of grease into a regular system. :rolling eyes They say don't do anything for 5 years (10 with extnd wrrty???). I have NEVER seen a freshwater rig go 5 years without ZERO maintenance on the hubs even if it was just to add some lube adjust the bearings. A brackish rig??? Man I couldn't stomach ridin around on those things without doing something annually myself. :surprised

I kinda wonder what would happen if you put 80w or 90w into the Gold system? The biggest negative I think about with the Gold system is if you have a complete loss of lube (hub cover coming off or innerseal failure) while on the road it's going to TOAST the whole system in just a couple of miles. At least with the old grease you can still limp home.

Like I said, once I start having problems with these hubs I have, I think I'm going to go back with grease but retain the Gold inner seal. As for finding the parts, industrial supply places general are where I go first. There's enough plants around my area that my town has several good supply houses and they've always had what I needed in stock even when auto parts and trailer places didn't.

:beer:
RA

ps
Rob now that I go back and re-read your post, since you are in brackish water YES I would switch to grease and all you have to do is buy some Bearing Buddy's (or any properly sized hub covers), slap them in and you're DONE!!!

 

[GotMyAlly]

Now you got me wantin' to check mine......I don't even know what hubs are on my trailer....

 

[RedAllison]

Now you got me wantin' to check mine......I don't even know what hubs are on my trailer....

I tried to find that pic of your wheels that were taken at C&O but couldn't. Being an 08 it could be either. If you have transparent plastic "inspection windows" on your hubs then you have the Gold System. If not then you'll see a smaller black "cap" in the center of the hub that has VAULT written on it.

 

[FlatOutAlly]

I tried to find that pic of your wheels that were taken at C&O but couldn't. Being an 08 it could be either. If you have transparent plastic "inspection windows" on your hubs then you have the Gold System. If not then you'll see a smaller black "cap" in the center of the hub that has VAULT written on it.

Why Darris doesn't hire you as the next Jim Barnes is WELL beyond me, Jim. (sounds like) Good info, well stated, no misspellings as a result of living in the cold north of the Mason Dixon, I could go on and on. :laughing All in fun, man.

Bottom line, I truly AM appreciative of good advice down in these woods. Sometimes it's lacking, but you always come through that I've seen. Thanks again. (insert thumbs up emoticon here - couldn't find one).

PS - Can you help me reinstall the lip on my boat? :shock:


PSS - Sorry to hear of you guys having brake troulble. It sucks. I've been there, usually dead spot on in the middle of the longest interstate stretch between exits.

 

[RobShaw-BasSport]

I know of a "Vault" failure already (Duane Harper-new Allison 2+2). The Vault uses a special grease that liquefies when warm and sets back up after cooling.

Im converting all of my hubs to old school grease!!!!

 

[champ198]

Rob is correct.

Boat mate is putting the UFP Vault hubs on their new trailers. On the way home from having my boat rigged, one of the vault caps leaked (has the "V" printed on it) and spewed grease all over my wheel and tire. (it was the day it was delivererd from Allison) A couple of weeks later, the opposite hub on the same axle blew the exact same way. UFP sent new stainless caps, o-rings, spring loaded oil rear seal and a tube of the grease for the grease gun. I ended up putting those black "trailer buddy" style vinyl caps over the ends of the hubs in case one decided to spew grease again. They sent a PVC tube in the repair kit that fits over the end of the stainless cap so you can beat the heck out of it to seat it in the hub. Also, use the RTV sealant as they specify.

After I performed the service, the hubs I serviced are running alot cooler than the ones I've not touched. The good thing about the Vault grease/oil hybrid is that if you do lose a seal, you can make it home. With oil bath, you can't.

I can assemble and disassemble a UFP vault hub blindfolded now. :razz

Link to the Vault owner's manual. http://www.ufpnet.com/Portals/0/PDFs/Trailer%20Buddy%20VAULT%20Axle%20Maintenance.pdf

I have mixed feeling about these hubs because of the failure on two out four hubs. On the other hand, the fix is easy and you won't be totally down on the road if the seals do fail.

 

[RedAllison]

Im converting all of my hubs to old school grease!!!!

That's exactly what I'm gonna do once these oil units start leaking. Like Duane said, the biggest problem that I can see with the oil setup is in the event of a failure and the oil runs out you are NOT going very far and the whole system will be TOAST in short order. I understand that issue has somewhat been lessoned with the Vault but even that has it's weaknesses. At least with grease you are protected. Over the years I've lost a couple of bearing caps and with grease you slap an extra dab in there, pop a new cap on and keep on rolling. Honestly I never have had that much problem with grease other than they are messy come time to change bearings or seals. But I've gone a decade on some trailers without doing anything other than adding grease maybe 2ce a year.

The rear/inner seal in the Gold/Vault system is REALLY neat, and honestly the inner seal is the weakest link in the whole setup regardless of what lube you're talkin about. It rides in a machined out groove in the spindle. That alone will hold more pressure than the old seal that just has the lip riding atop the spindle itself. Combined with grease and a pressurized cap like a Bearing Buddy or a Red Eye I don't see how it could get much better.

:beer:
RA

ps
FAO I'm just FULL of useless info! :cuss :big grin

 

[MGEOD]

Not on a Allison but one of my old boats -Ranger. Had a problem and got some real good advice from the Ranger dealer. He asked me a simple question. How many times have you been left on the side of the road with old school grease type hubs because of grease leaking out. Now compare that to the oil filled hubs. I don't have oil filled on my Ally and would never want a boat with them. Have often wondered what are the advantages . Heck I like messing with my boat when I am not fishing . Man I want me a new 21 fter so bad .. Couple of years I will have one , it looks like a fishing machine

 

[The Whip]

My family business for 32 years has been in truck and trailer service and repair. I could never understand why the industry changed to oil hubs. When you drive 2 hours to your lake and back a warm/hot hub into a lake you have to expect water to get in.

I have converted many of my friends trailers back to grease with no problem. I will do the same when I pick up my Allison next week in Texas and drive her back home to Canada.


Manny

 

[RedAllison]

My family business for 32 years has been in truck and trailer service and repair. I could never understand why the industry changed to oil hubs. When you drive 2 hours to your lake and back a warm/hot hub into a lake you have to expect water to get in.

I have converted many of my friends trailers back to grease with no problem. I will do the same when I pick up my Allison next week in Texas and drive her back home to Canada.


Manny

Glad to hear an "insider" confirm what some of us are thinking. IMHO oil hubs are kinda an answer for a question I don't recall anyone askin??? I can see where the allure is to unscrew that plug and drain the oil out and refill it and your hubs are then "repacked and fresh" but as has been said, an oil system just doesn't leave much margin for error and they sure don't have a built in "limp home" mode like grease. I haven't tried it on the big red barge yet, but I once did have a failure with the right front axle on my XB03 many years ago. I compressed the axle and tightened it with a transom tiedown, yanked that wheel and went home on 3 axles. But I wonder if I could do that with my much larger and heavier XB21?

MG's Ranger dealer put it PERFECT, "how many times has grease left you stranded aside the road"??? :wink
RA

 

[The Whip]

On our 1400lbs hull's it would NOT be a problem taking 1 or even 2 wheels as long as it's on the same axle. Most boat builders only include tandem axle's on 1700lbs plus barges to begin with. I have been phoned many an early morning on the way to a tourny that one of our guy's needs mechanical help. _angers seem to be the one's that have alot of hub/water issues that I end up having to "rig" a ratchet strap around the cross member so they can carry-on.

If it was not for a boat trailer(water) application, then the Vault or oil (50w) would be the way to go.

Manny

 

[DaveW]

I've been running these:

http://www.durahub.com/

I'm up to 3 and a half years on the same set of bearings, over 60,000 klms towing and I'm in and out of salt water almost every week!

The only maintenence I've done is add a bit of oil about a year ago.

Am I on borrowed time? Probably, but if it aint broke I'm not touching it :very happy