busted prop

[fishnfireman]

It all boils down to trying every prop you can for your particular application.

I can quarantee --what works on one boat/mtr combination will be different on the next. . Just about the time you think you know the answer--someone will change the question. I have said it before and I'll say it again----- A prop that works great, at or near sea-level is not going to do the same when you add higher elevation into the equation. I was (not) a Trophy fan before I got this 21' prosport with the present mtr. which is a 225 pmax with a few mods....At this point in time it is still the best all around tournament prop I
have ran on MY rig.
Last I talked to Darris he was still convinced that the Alli cut Trophy was his prop of choice for the 21's with any mtr combination. I hope he has found a better one since our last conversation.

So Red--give us your prop of choice and some numbers to go with it.

We are still looking for that "magic" prop for our boats, .
Our worst problem is there are 3 of us running the 21's --who get to compare notes. However we have three different motors. which makes it very tough!

 

[Redding XB21]

Good point FFM. There are lots of questions and no definitive answer. XB21ER has the 21prosport, RA & I have the 21Bassport. RA has 3l 225XS, I have 3l 250XS. 21ER has the 250XS. all different combinations.
1 thing in common, lots of tackle & full tanks!

I know XB21ER has an arsenal of props and it would be good if he gives us his input on the various props he has run. He is pleased with his quadIV. No numbers needed, just best to worst for the different requirements.

None of us want a disposable prop!

 

[RedAllison]

The only thing about Darris' recommendations is the fact that most of his tests are on completely or at least very lightly loaded boats. When I say loaded I mean LOAAAAADED. I weigh 240, Neal is over 200, Jeffro is 240 and I know for sure that I have well over 150#s of crap and tackle in the boat, plus it was raining. (How much does 21' of carpet weigh in a pouring down rain? A good 100#s I'd bet!) Plus the livewell and fuel tank were nearly full. Temp was in the mid 50s, very windy and we were dodging coots and other water birds. Freakin lake was FULL of em!!! One sea gull flew BETWEEN the consoles of my boat. :cuss Glad I had a full face on, Jeffro was duckin behind the console with his paint mask...:laughing

Altitude wise, that's definitely a "case by case" basis. Obviously what works for me at 300ft in Memphis is NOT going to work for FFM at 4000+. BUT there is very little difference between sea level and up too 1k-1200ft. After that, YES the thin airs takes it's toll on any motor! My local lakes (Pickwick and KY Lake) are 350ft-400ft. When I go to Douglas for the rally (1K ft) I don't loose anything.

But as long as we're talking about stock motors, stock hulls and stock gearcases then I think if everything is close in conditions then yes you CAN expect one result to be very near the others. Neals XB03/225X ran essentially the same as my 03/225SS did with the same props and test conditions. When I say same, I don't mean within .1 of a mph on the gps I mean within 1-2mph of each other. I ran 89+ with a stock 27" Trophy, so did he. I ran loaded 93+ with a QIV OT, so does his.

FFM baselines so far on my new boat:
The first round with my 27" QIV X-OB was 82.2gps @ 5500+ a few weeks ago at blastoff during a club tourney. OVERLOADED boat. The prop was to tight for a good holeshot when loaded and didn't let the motor turn up in it's peak range on the big end, as I type this it's in a UPS truck headed back to me from having been waved under Todd's magic wand! We're gonna run this Friday and see what the new tweaks do for it. :beer:

The stock 26" Trophy I ran the other day, 83.5gps @ 6050+ in the wind and rain, again OVERLOADED. (Neal and I aboard)

The A-cut 26" Trophy, back to back against the stock Trophy, 82.3gps when lowered 1/2". (Ran 81.3 @ same height as the stock Trophy.) Jeffro and I aboard)

The Hmotive OBVIOUSLY hooks up better and has a considerably lower slip factor than the Trophys. As it was it runs within 1mph of the Trophy yet does so @ 500+ less revs. And that's all the way through the range. @ 5K with the Trophys the other day I was running in the mid 60s (I want to say 64gps). @ 5K with the Hmotive I'm cruising 76-77gps! "1 pitch inch" AINT gonna make that much difference. PLUS we all know how steeply pitched Trophys are, I bet they are closer too the 27" Hmotive than they are the stamped 26 on the hubs.

Neal Edwards (GotMyAlly), Jeff Brazil (Mercboy175), Dennis Kenny (TN XB-21) and myself are meeting up this Friday to run some more props. Sunny, mid/upper 60s, low humidty, should be PERFECT conditions. Neal will have his XB03/225X, Dennis will have his XB21 2+2/175Opti and I of course will have RDWII. Todd sent me my worked XOB back and we have two more Hmotives to try on Dennis' rig as well. (He runs 70.5gps with the cut Trophy, well "RAN" til my torquemonster SportXS made a 2 blade out of his cut Trophy! :embarassed ) For the first time he's gonna try his stock 26" Trophy for a baseline to then compare against the Hmotives.

News @ 11,
RA

 

[spudman14]

I recently tried a Mercury Pro ET, looking for something to replace my fourth broken
trophy. I was impressed. The prop has tremendous bow lift, is built for surface piercing
so the case can come up, is cut very thick to carry a heavy load, is faster than a trophy
(on my boat). Looks neat (oth exhuast). Now, if Merc. would let me trade in broken trophys.

 

[GotMyAlly]

But as long as we're talking about stock motors, stock hulls and stock gearcases then I think if everything is close in conditions then yes you CAN expect one result to be very near the others. Neals XB03/225X ran essentially the same as my 03/225SS did with the same props and test conditions. When I say same, I don't mean within .1 of a mph on the gps I mean within 1-2mph of each other. I ran 89+ with a stock 27" Trophy, so did he. I ran loaded 93+ with a QIV OT, so does his.

Don't let him fool ya -----> mine was always a couple mph faster!

 

[catfish123]

Neal.......that's what I thought, you were always several mph faster than RA.

 

[fishnfireman]

Spudman you know You will have to let me try that one before i can sink that much $$$$$$$ money in 1 prop.


You got any idea how many yards that will take to pay for?
As ya know I sure didn't make enough to pay for it last week.

 

[Redding XB21]

Which of you guys can:beer:. That':laughings the important thing
Gene

 

[fishnfireman]

Spudman.

I don't know if it was that new prop or the mtr height.
But I have never seen an Allison throwing water like that before .

 

[Redding XB21]

Maybe that is why they will be "testing" the proET on the 21's.
Boy am I anxious to hear the results. According to Bill, all efforts are going into the 24'.

 

[spudman14]

Fishnfireman,
Must not have been totally on plane when you saw me. There is no roostertail, maybe
one foot. Motor needs to go up. You can sure try it.

 

[RedAllison]

ASHEUT Neal you dreamin dur trunkmonkey!!! :laughing I know damned well that once that new flywheel was put on and the timing reset at the rally this year, that sexy red bytch was running HARDER than she EVER did the previous 7 years I owned her, I truly mean that. I mean she was RIPPING and driving like a dream with the new QIV prop and hydro steering. So what did I do, I got rid of her!!!

BUT I think I "replaced her well", :beer:
RA

ps
As far as the Pro ETs, I will be surprised if they make a good tournament prop. That's just ALOT of weight to get out of the hole and carry on the big end. On an empty/light 21 with big power, yeah I'm sure they can be dialed in to run on the big end!!!

 

[2fast4mom]

I mean she was RIPPING and driving like a dream

Red, all that means is that she was lookin for a place to blow up. You know the rules; they run best just before they explode. :beer:

 

[XB21er]

Man I go out for trick or treatin and look at this :very happy As some of you know I'm on my 2nd XB21 ProSport/250xs. My first was an '05 now I'm in an '06. I've tried about a dozen or so different props under various conditions - sea level to 2600'. I can tell you - my '06 has more punch out of the hole than the '05 - but, this 06 needs more bowlift than the '05. I have no idea why- and my rigs were virtually identical :confused. But overall performance very close. The fastest I've ever ran was with a stock 27 trophy and a stock gearcase ( I've run the modded and stock gcs too) :very happy . The best holeshot was a bravo with the big vent holes- but had horrible topend. I've cracked a couple of trophys too. But I do have a 26 that I had balanced & blueprinted and it runs great - good holeshot and I can put it on the limiter lightly loaded (< 1/2 tank fuel & no water in livewell) with good slippage numbers. I've also got a 27 hydromotive QIV X with PVS sized vent holes that I'm happy with - slightly better holeshot than the trophy and same topend. Propshaft height varies - I will adjust it on the fly and just drive by how it feels- but usually around 1/2" below the pad - sometimes higher. Something about the 21s I'm sure many have noticed- the fuel cell is ENTIRELY behind the pad- unlike the 2003 where it is basically centered- so as you burn fuel you lose more bowlift. So I end up running it higher when it is full. I think the trophy is a good load carrying prop if it's balanced and run a little lower(like 1/2" below or more)- but if you try to jack it up it's gonna break. I've also run Drag IVs(great holeshot bad topend) and Performer 4s(great holeshot lightly loaded- ok overall). :beer:

Spudman - was the ProEt you tried a lab finish or Pro finish ?

 

[fishnfireman]

XB21

Glad you said that !!

I have also found (MY) 21 --- even with a 2.5 ltr, it likes to run best about 1/2 inch below pad,and yes it's the same on my rig as you burn off fuel. With my boat you 'might' gain another 1 mph by jacking it up. However with the loads I haul, it does not take a good set and feels like it wants to do sumpin stupid.

I figure it also has a lot to do with not ever breaking any props.

Before anyone jumps on that one----I'll say it again-----There were a couple of bad batches of Trophy props out there and some are still waiting to break !!!!!!!!!

 

[pickwickangler]

There were a couple of bad batches of Trophy props out there and some are still waiting to break !!!!!!!!!

I dont think it was a batch I think it is ALL trophy props. They come out of pitch from merc. If you are going to surface one or run through alot of rough water the best you can do is get it B&B and hope when it comes apart your GC dont get involved. Its a no brainer to me, countless trophys have came apart on bullet/ally/strokers, I aint strappin another one on my boat PERIOD .... To me it is a safety factor and a $ factor. Later

 

[catfish123]

I have used several different Trophy props on my XB2003 with 225 for many years without breaking any of them. I guess I shall consider myself to be lucky.

 

[fishnfireman]

I have used several different Trophy props on my XB2003 with 225 for many years without breaking any of them. I guess I shall consider myself to be lucky.

Catfish.

It’s some luck, but it’s more on HOW you run them. I think all will agree that Bullett and Stroker run there props very high compared to most Allisons. So lets just stick with our A boats here!
Someone stated above that a Trophy came “out of pitch”,,,,,Not sure what was meant by that, however a trophy , is by design, a progressive pitch prop. That is why they run better, by formula, than what is stamped on the prop for pitch. A 26 pitch will vary from as much as 24 for the least pitch blade to 27+ for the most pitched blade. A lot of guys say to add X amount for the CUP in a Trophy, when doing the prop calculations. In my opinion it's not near as much about the cup with a Trophy as it is the tallest pitched blade will be at least 1 full pitch more than what is stamped on the wheel!!

Now back to why ALL props will ultimately fail sooner or later. A little prop 101 that most already know. but I will remind us.
Every time a prop spins its going to have some flex on the blade!
Consequently - the bigger the blade area and or the thinner the blade. The more and easier it will flex. The more flex-- the quicker the metal will fatigue . Hence the sooner it will break.
Now-- if that prop stays in the water--the flex will be kept to a minimum.
Once those blades start leaving the water at say 6500 rpm then re-interring! Man that’s a lot of stress and flex. So 6500 rpm times 1 hour a day times 1 year, 5 years , 10 years . I’m surprised they last that long.

Granted you are going to get some bad ones with any prop Co. Anyone remember Predator props--running son aguns-----breaking som abeaches
Bottom line is…If your going to jack them out of the water..you better stay away from a big eared thin bladed prop.

I know some of us are going to fire back at this…… But I never run over this high--- or maybe just once----Well maybe your running higher than you think. Or maybe-- just that once, was once to many!
There are plenty of Allisons who have ran all kinds of props (except predator--who is out of business) with very few failures. While some Allison owners have broke and continue to break various brands of props.
My advice to them is stick with a thick blade and or smaller eared prop. Or keep them in the water !

 

[catfish123]

I may be misreading your post, but it seems to me that you may be saying that on a 4 blade Trophy, each blade is intentionally pitched differently than the others and that has something to do with progressive pitch. I do not believe that is the case. A progressive pitched prop means that along the same blade, you will measure different pitches from the leading edge to the trailing edge, and this is done to get the best of both worlds with regard to holeshot, midrange, and topend. As far as I know, each blade should be progressively pitched but it should be the same as all the other blades, not different.

 

[fishnfireman]

Catfish that could be correct.
If that is the case, then I would think almost every prop could be called a progressive pitch.
Being they would have less pitch at the barrel, then having more pitch towards the tip.
However the way it was explained to me, years ago. Each blade of a Trophy was a different pitch. Could be wrong !

Maybe Kevin can dig up an old thread he had posted about this some years back.