Bass Pro Sport 1st run problems

[whipper]

Did ya go for a test drive? And if ya did how was it then?

 

[redwingally]

I am not trying to come off as a smart *** here.....But yall are missing the point.
These boats are new enough that this issue has still not been a problem for all of the dealers yet.........for some it may NEVER surface. So lets don't be quick to point a finger...It only becomes a problem when certain factors come into play. The last time I talked to Lee he had not witnessed it. Darris was the same way except he has talked to a few dealers who have. The first time a talked to Darris about this. He was like HUH whatchew talkin bout boy. But as time went on and more of these boats got out, it became appearent. Key might have been the first one to have issues with a boat that went to lubbock. It ran FINE at Dallas but when the new owner took it uphill ,it would not come out of the hole.
Walleycomet is about the 8th person to come on here or other boards, that I know of with this same deal.
What gets me is----- it's the same battle some of us have fought since they started using internal combuston engines..they WILL NOT run the same at alltitude..and or with a HEAVY load....These guys are buying a boat and expecting it to perform the same everywhere.
For some reason these hulls are very sensative.. there is a definate line. they come out of the hole good until you cross that line..then it's dauumm.
The bottom line is your gona have to prop down. or change gears.
We are starting to learn some tricks to help.
When I first got my 300Xs It would NOT get on plane with a true tournament load period. with anything bigger than a 26..
Right now I have it jumping out with a 28 until you fill the livewell. then it's a little slow but tolerable.

I just searched the entire allisonowners board archives and couldnt find any of these problems to the extent of which you are saying they reach, looked at scream and fly and fastbass also. I am old and could have missed something. If you load her up with 2 men and a full tournament load with a 26" wheel and you still cant get on plane at 690 ft then something else is wrong.

 

[fishnfireman]

Just some clarifications, It is the XB-21 Bass Sport Pro (two seater) dual counsel. I bought the haul used and had the new 250 xs set up at Jaco. I run on Bull Shoals Lake 690 ft. above sea level

PM sent.
Good luck

 

[walleyecomet]

No i did not drive it. The fellow I bought it from works for Darris and he had a 1995 150 efi that ran about 70

 

[whipper]

Before ya go and change anything I think its a good idea to get ahold of someone in your area with the same Allison and spend some time on a lake figuring things out? Your in Tennessee right? There are a few folks close by that Im sure would be more than happy to take her for a run with ya. Some times thats the best way to go first.

James

 

[walleyecomet]

Bulls Shoals Lake is in Arkanas and Misssouri. Im the only one on that lake with this boat.

 

[fishnfireman]

I just searched the entire allisonowners board archives and couldnt find any of these problems to the extent of which you are saying they reach, looked at scream and fly and fastbass also. I am old and could have missed something. If you load her up with 2 men and a full tournament load with a 26" wheel and you still cant get on plane at 690 ft then something else is wrong.

"If you load her up with 2 men and a full tournament load with a 26" wheel and you still cant get on plane at 690 ft then something else is wrong."

No--- if you can't do it with a 28 at 690 ft it ain't the elevation.
I fished a championship tournament at Bull shoals in the late 90's. might be the lowest elevation I have ever had my bass boat on. My old 2003/225 would Haul the mail. If not for a thunderstorm holding us up for several hours going out the last day. i would have a picture of old Forrest Wood handing me the keys to a brand new rig.

I spoke to quick on this one..should have waited to see where he was.
I think you are getting old :Beer ...I might not be able to post a picture on this thing. but give me a little time and even I can find several posts with this issue.

 

[redwingally]

I aint that old but I will still wait for you post on the subject.

 

[redwingally]

Re: XB 21's bassport/250XS
I have the 2 degree wedge on my 08 BasSport Pro. I'm running a 28 Hydromotive Quad IV with 8 ventilation holes. I can get up on step with FULL load including full livewells in about 1.5 boat lengths. I only have 5 hours though on my 250 XS.

previous discussion on the subject from rob Shaw I believe

 

[RedAllison]

I know this boat then, it was at the factory during the rally lastyear. Had a 150 on it and was running 70-71ish? (Wanna say it was white with red and maybe black trim?)

First, where are the batteries? I would assume since the original owner worked for Darris then they would be under the front deck, especially since it only had a 150EFI on it. But perhaps someone moved them in the back? If so then move them back up front? Like Mike says, once you fill the livewell on these 21s the holeshot DOES indeed slow down noticably. As was said the elevation isn't enough to worry about be it in AR, MO or even TN for that matter.

What jackplate and spacer is on the hull now? If Darris set the boat up for that 2.5-150 then it probably had a 9" setback on it (I can't remember was it a fixed plate or the hydro unit?). 8" or less seems to be the ticket on 21s with big iron on the transom. If you have a 5.5" hydro plate then have Bill at the factory send you some new 2" spacers.

I know everyone is tired of hearing it but anyone at lastweeks rally can verify that my 21 had a VERY heavy load in it (all my tackle, water was in the livewell half the time, I had my grill, DOUBLE STUFFED COOLER, all the seats, sometimes 3 people, two 25# weightbags brought them for others to try as needed, food and utensils just EVERYTHING you haul for people during a rally) and my 225 was actually spinning my Hydromotive QIX-XOB a little hard coming out of the hole a few times. (My motor has REALLY woken up now at 38+ hours, I might plug a rear vent hole or two!)

Darris has always said that the smaller horsepowered 2.5 motors (135-200) had more bottom end torque than the (225-280+) did and that was why he considered them better ski/play motors for most boats. Perhaps the 225SportXS is the same way vs the 250/300XS? You can move the horsepower "window" on these motors wherever you want to, move it up, move it down, move it to the middle. But it's a 2 way street, you move it upstairs (like the 300XS) and you are going to give up a little downstairs. Such is life with gasoline motors! :banghead

The torque these 3.0+ motors make is ALOT more than the 2.5s. That makes it that much harder to expect them to "hold on" during holeshot without cavitation, especially just before the bow begins to fallover. Over hub props are just an invitation to MORE of that occurance. Has Walleyecomet tried anything like a cut Trophy or Hmotive on the boat once it was fully loaded?

Also, does this boat have the 2 degree transom wedges? If not it sounds like a PRIME candidate for such. I'm NOT going to put the foil on my boat because I think they interfere in heavy seas, but I AM going to eventually get around to getting the wedges put on. A good thing made that much better, NEVER hurt! :beer:
RA

ps
I also get the feeling that these 2 seater 21s are that much more difficult to tune for proper holeshot. You move the weight back that much more than the ProSport or the 2+2 and you're going to have more holeshot issues so a prop that holds on is that much more critical. The "slight imbalance" with more weight being rearward is already the reason they are a little slower than the other layouts of the 21. So what works for the ProSport/2+2 is that much more of a mountain to climb for the 2 seater!

 

[redwingally]

"Like Mike says, once you fill the livewell on these 21s the holeshot DOES indeed slow down noticably".

I was wondering where you were at RA, catching up on some sleep?

Slow down noticably is a very long way from having to have someone lay on the deck to get on plane. I know the 300xs doesnt have the best low end to her but she should get up.

 

[froggy]

WalleyeComet,

There are a couple of us Okies (not far from Bull Shoals) that have been setting up, and driving Allies since the 70's. While we don't have any experience with the new 21 we have experience with all the other Allies. Since driving is one of your concerns, we can definitely help there. We are in NorthEast Oklahoma - about 5 hours from Bull.

We also know a little bit about propellers and have a few to select from.

If you get up against the wall and are ready to get drunk, come on over and we'll drink with you (he,he,he). Seriously, we will help you get comfortable with your boat if you can come this way. Don't get down on your rig---it is a primo deal and soon you will wonder why you were even concerned.

If the rig were mine, I'd raise the engine to about even with the pad to 1/2" below and leave it there, especially for holeshot. Next try props.

Good luck.

froggy

 

[redwingally]

XB21 BASSPORT (2 SEATER) , 250XS, 1:75 SPORTMASTER
FULLY LOADED(FISHING GEAR) 1 CRANKING BATT,2 HEAVY TROLLING MOTOR BATTS, MOTOR GUIDE ON BOARD CHARGER,PTS MOTORGUIDE TROLLING MOTOR,TOPPED OFF FUEL TANK,2 PEOPLE.WANTED TO SET UP WITH THE LOAD I WILL BE RUNNING.
SMARTCRAFT RPM AND GARMIN GPS BEST RUN WAS WITH A HYDROMOTIVE 4 BLADE 28 PITCH 85.3 MPH AT 6200 RPMS. HAD A GREAT HOLE SHOT AND STAYED HOOKED UP.I RAN A COUPLE OTHER PROPS BUT NOTHING CAME CLOSE. I DID RUN A 26 TROPHEY BUT I LOST A BLADE AT 6000 RPMS SO THAT WAS THE END OF THAT.
I FEEL LIKE I HAVE SOME THINGS TO OVERCOME BECAUSE THE BOAT WOULD WANT TO SPIN OUT OR THE NOSE WOULD FALL IF I JACKED THE MOTOR MORE THAN 1 INCH BELOW THE PAD.I FEEL LIKE THE BATTS HAVE ALOT TO DO WITH THAT ISSUE.THE H2O PRESSURE ON THE 85.3 RUN WAS 20+ PSI BUT I COULDNT GET THE MOTOR UP WITHOUT GETTING INTO TROUBLE.
I FEEL LIKE THE BOAT IS CAPABLE OF RUNNING 90MPH FULLY LOADED IF THE RIGHT WEIGHT PLACEMENT, PROP AND ENGINE HEIGHT IS FOUND.
ANYWAY IM HAVING FUN AND PLAN TO KEEP ON PLAYING



posted by QUICKANDFAST in "06

 

[RedAllison]

Does this boat we're talking about have 1.75s as well? I think those are to big a gear for holeshots on these boats and contribute to severe cavitation with the big block torque and would naturally be magnified with overhub props.

Just a thought,
RA

 

[fishnfireman]

Jim he said in a pm that the batteries were in the rear..he has moved them back up which helped. but i'ts not as good as he feels it should be.
i told him, like you say, believe it or not the 225 can have a better hole shot.
It does have the wedges !
I have also told him the tricks that helped my rig come out better with the pro et..but we are not comparing apples to apples..you are so right about the BasSport pro--she is a finicky beoch. when it comes to wt forward.
I also told him to put the mtr (for now) where it would be about 1/2 below pad at it's highest point. And if it wants to come out better with the jplate down--- then by goly put it down and then bring it back to 1/2 below
For now get him a 26 pitch that will get her up and get some seat time.

 

[catfish123]

I am somewhat surprised as knowledgeable and technical that Darris is with all his creations that he hasn't seemed to have provided everyone with the "right formula" to get these boats running better without all the aggravation that many of you have apparently experienced. This shouldn't be rocket science at all in my opinion. There should be a standard set-up that would get this boat running close to the performance it was designed for. Certainly, I fully appreciate the challenges that elevation, etc can make on over-all performance but I don't think these boats should be as touchy to set-up as it seems that they are. Just my opinion of course.

 

[redwingally]

+1, not rocket science

 

[fishnfireman]

I am somewhat surprised as knowledgeable and technical that Darris is with all his creations that he hasn't seemed to have provided everyone with the "right formula" to get these boats running better without all the aggravation that many of you have apparently experienced. This shouldn't be rocket science at all in my opinion. There should be a standard set-up that would get this boat running close to the performance it was designed for. Certainly, I fully appreciate the challenges that elevation, etc can make on over-all performance but I don't think these boats should be as touchy to set-up as it seems that they are. Just my opinion of course.

Let me see if I can answer some of this for ya.
It's tough to be "knowledgeable and technical" about something without using it..
First off = Darris does not warrant nor condone the use of anything larger than a 225 on these boats. So even though he might know what the "right formula" is. He may be reluctant to give up that info. For fear that it might be construed as an ok to mount one.. Because of that, Darris has no experience setting these boats up with a 250 or 300. With that said, his work has been with the 225XS

 

[John Richied]

Guys I have ZERO experience (NONE) with the XB-21

 

[redwingally]

on the Allison board I searched under XB21.

Under HOLE SHOT PROBLEMS that you quoted, which was 4 pages long, it boiled down to prop /set up and landar stated it was fixed and he was sorry for venting but he was frustrated. Bias????