Another new Allison owner

[JGray]

Long post so bear with me...

I have been lurking on this site on and off for several years and have become very intrigued with these boats. I recently found myself without a boat (primarily Rangers in the past) which renewed my interest in the Allisons. I have been reading this board daily over the last couple of months trying to learn as much as possible while looking for a boat. I have been watching the various internet classifieds for a while and just purchased a '96 XB2003 ProSport Tournament w/ '96 225 ProMax. It has a CLE l/u and 30" Merc Chopper.

I am located in Montana where Lunds and Crestliners are very common and Allisons are basically unheard of. I am an engineer by trade, but work part time for a local boat dealer selling Crestliners and Sea Rays on the side. One of our other salesmen asked me what kind of boat I bought and then replied with "what in the he!! is an Allison?" (to which I just smiled).

I am the second owner and the boat was purchased new and rigged by Baker Marine. I don't believe the previous owner changed any of the original set-up. I was told that the boat ran 93 mph by the dealer when testing the set-up (I assume one person), and 90 mph on delivery (I assume two people). In checking to see where everything is set, this is what I found: I leveled the pad and prop shaft and as best I can measure, the prop shaft is 1-1/4" below the lip at the back of the pad and appears to be about 1-1/2" below the pad. It has an Allison jack plate that is adjustable for height with a threaded rod/bolt system on each side. There are three sets of mounting holes to adjust setback, and it is currently in the middle, which measures about 12". The outer mounting holes will give about 13-1/2" of setback.

I have driven the boat a couple of times now and am comfortable up to 5000 rpm before it starts to chine walk to the point I can't control it. The speedo is not working, but I am guessing this should be close to 70 mph. It has the original cable steering and I can feel a little play. I cannot turn the wheel with one finger with the motor down sitting on the trailer (as I have read about here) - it is stiff enough that you do need a firm grip.

It looks like I will need to address the steering (adjust play/cable luber, or convert to hydraulic), and from what I have read here, it sounds like I should raise the engine and add more setback. I am thinking I might start at 1" below the pad and go to the 13-1/2" setting. The prop blades are pretty dinged up and the front edge of the skeg as well. I don't know how critical this is right now, but I probably will buy another prop soon. Our altitude here is 3600' and we typically need to run about 2" less pitch than at lower altitude. Hole shot with the 30" Chopper is pretty sluggish compared to where I initially tested the boat on the Mississippi River. I have been reading about the Hydromotive QIV/OT and am considering this one in either a 26" or 28". The other choice may be a 26" Trophy.

I have read every post on this board regarding set-up, seat time, steering, props, and alot of other topics. Any additional advice/suggestions regarding my particular set-up would be greatly appreciated. Primary use will be fishing with 1 - 2 people and lake cruising with 2 - 4 people. There may be a need to pull a water skier in the future, but this would be somewhat limited and not a high priority.

Regards,

Jerry

 

[AllisonNewb97]

Congrats Jerry! I've had my 2002 since march. Im still learning but I cannot stress the importance of not overtrimming. I made a trip today in my baby. I experience very little chine with my motor trimmed no more than parallel with the boat. John made a suggestion for me to level my boat and propshaft (just as you would to measure propshaft height) and make a mark on your trim gauge (if you've got one). Once you do this drive the boat at WOT trimming no higher than parallel with the boat until you get comfortable with it. Its helped me and Im much more confident with Alli than when I first started. Im running a yamaha 200 with bobs nosecone. As far as setup goes, Im 5/8" below the pad, turning a 28p triton on the limiter (6200rpm). I dont know how altitude affects performance because Im way down here below sea level in good ole' Louisiana, but they're very knowledgeable people on here (as you already know) and Im sure you'll get all the help you'll need.

 

[John Richied]

Jerry, Congratulations on your “what the hell is that”… LOL and welcome to the board.

Unless your steering, skeg, or prop is in real bad shape I would just learn to drive it as is for now.

Making changes before you master driving your Allison could help or hurt your learning experience and it sounds like the boat is set up where learning to drive her won’t be too tough.

After you have some seat time moving the setback back and running the jackplate/propshaft height up will yield some speed but with a CLE with or without a nosecone it’s going to set up a little different then a guy running a Sportmaster, Torquemaster or 200 gearcase.

Allison Boats are considered rare out here in the west, but they’re some around. Depending on where you are in Montana there might be some closer then you think. If you’re close to the Idaho boarder, you are with in about 3-5 hours of Allison owners, but most of them are not on-line.

 

[Rocket]

Welcome to the Club of "Rookie" drivers Jerry!

I'm a Newbie myself (AKA Rub-rail! :lol: )

But, After a few dozen trys (about a 100 to be honest!!!),,,,, I'm getting the hang of it! :shock: "Get one... Or Follow one"!

IMHO>>> Take baby steps! Don't Over correct the wheel! Be patient!And Have FUN!!!







Rub-Rail-Rocket! 8)

 

[Yellowallison]

Congards on yur new Alllison thier JGray...... and to the Allison board...


Keep yur rainsuit near cause a good Roostertail of SmackTalking might come across your Deck at any time ...

Good buch guys on here that will help yu with anything...

 

[Rocket]

Good buch guys on here that will help yu with anything...

That's for sure! :wink:

 

[JGray]

Thanks for the welcome and suggestions.

Newb97: I have not verified where neutral trim is as you suggested. I guess I should have done this when I had it leveled to check prop shaft height. I have read a great deal here about not over trimming, and the previous owner showed me the location on the trim guage where he never trims above and it is in the middle of the trim range on the guage (I know that probably does not mean much). At this setting, the moter visually appears to be trimmed in a bit from level when running down the lake. The previous owner was able to drive it to 6000 rpm at this trim setting before he started having trouble with chine walk (where I was getting to 5000).

John: I am in Helena and have just assumed I have the only Allison in Montana - maybe not? I concur with your suggestion to leave engine height and setback alone for a while. If I start making changes now, I won't have anything to compare to. I have to think that the dealer that rigged it probably new what they were doing. It does drive, ride and handle better than any other boat I have driven or ridden in. I have never owned a boat without hydraulic steering, so I have pretty much had my mind made up that I would go this route. It does have a fair amount of steering torque at 5000 rpm. If I could neutralize or reduce this, I would probably be content with the factory steering.

I took a buddy out with me the other day who has been in my previous Rangers once or twice, but other than that has only been in aluminum boats. He was blown away by how smooth and effortless this boat flies down the lake. You should have seen the look on his face when I leaned over and told him we were going close to 70 mph (it seemed like we were only doing 50). Every other boat I have had really gets to be a handful at speeds over 60, where this one is effortless. I am really looking forward to learning to drive this boat correctly and am not going to rush it.

Jerry

 

[fishnfireman]

Jerry,

It sounds like you have done your homework !
If your measurments are correct the motor could be raised a little. As far as the setback- leave it there for now, I don't think Darris went to 14.5 until 1999 or 2000. A few guys around here still run it like yours. they would rather have a little better hole shot than 1or 2 more mph on top.
It's nice to hear you talk about altitude. Those who are blessed to live at low elevation just don't understand. At 3600 your right at the borderline between a 26 or 27 for the most part. I would think a 26 Hydromotive would be a great place to start. IF it gets on the limiter then get a bigger one later. I would venture to bet no one on your home water will come close to keeping up. As for the 30 chopper, great prop- just a little big for 3600.
Trade it or keep it so one day you can strip the boat and do some high speed runs.
It would be nice to know (if it's the long shaft) that the 225 had the updates done. One way to find out would be to ck the timing and also see what plugs it has.
So far we have not had any problems with the fuel being of lower octane at higher elevation, just buy the highest octane available. But be sure to fill up with the good stuff if you go down stream.

ENJOY

MDK

 

[cdaallison]

welcome to the Ally club. You will find these boats are unreal! I too agree with John you need seat time and you can dial it in later. Get rid of any play in the steering and spend time in the drivers seat. You drive an Allison on the pad (like riding a bike) small corrections at the wheel keep the boat on the pad. It doesn't take long and you do it without a second thought. I am located in Spokane and my boat is on Couer D Alene in northern Idaho if you need help come over. CDA is 2200 above sea level and I run a 30 chopper with my 225ss promax(grandsport). The nice thing about a Mercury chopper is the almost refuse to blow out. You might try a 28 chopper. Mike

 

[RedAllison]

Welcome to "da family" JG. By summers end you will be flyin with your foot on the floor and entertainin the idea of a 2.5 (we ALL do whether we admit it or not). Seat time IS the best thing for any newbie BUT you are really making it hard on yourself if your steering is not up to snuff and your blades and skeg are in need of repair. Get the steering fixed RIGHT NOW! It will cut your learning time in half or better. Clean up the gearcase and prop and you should be ready to have the summer of your life.

For altitude get with Russ Benton (hes on the other end of the Rockies down in NM) he has alot of experience with a rig similar too yours with skinny air. I too think you would be better off with say a 28" ET for top end and a 26" Trophy or maybe even a 25" depending on loads and conditions. One of the golden rules of owning and Alli is NEVER turn down the chance to try new props! Get some loaners from your place or work and load the boat up like you want it loaded for that particular prop and use/conditions and TEST, TEST, TEST.

For a newbie props like Trophy's, Tempests and the Hydromotive Quad IV OT are typically easier to drive than a topender like a steep pitched ET.

Good luck and welcome again,
RA

 

[RB in NM]

Welcome aboard JG !

You will get plenty of looks in that Alli up there fer sure. People out his away just don't see rigs like that none too often! Especially up yonder in the northern Rockies....

You're luckier than me tho, I'm at 4500 - 5000 feet in elevation...Being originally from Louisiana at sea level,,, yep elevation SUKS!

At your elevation a 28 should work fine. But for earning your pilot wings, I'd go with a smaller pitched if you had like a 26 handy....if not run what ya got. The larger pitched wheels in stock form ususally have a little more torque to them. A decent 26"chopper can be bought for 150-200 bucks, and for an all around prop, a nice chopper is hard to beat.

One thing about higher elevation, is there ain't enough oxygen up here to compress, thus your compression will be lower than anticapated. You can compensate that by either having your current heads milled, or like me, getting spare sets cut for different CC's, for different purposes. But more than not, you will not see the need for higher compression until the speed bug hits you after getting very comfortable with the rig.

As already said, the steering needs to be up to snuff first. You may need to lube the cables if they are too stiff. There's a cool luber upper on the Allison owners info area, that many have used to lube up stiff cables. One suggestion, I'd use cable steering first before going to hydl steering. Cables gives you the real sense of how the hull is acting, hydl kinda hides the handling quirks. Nice free moving cables are hard to beat, but hydl is the best there is. I'd get that propshaft 1/2" below the pad. On these rigs, if the prop is too buried, you will have ill handleing.Your set back of 13.5 is fine.

Enjoy the rig and don't be a stranger on here. Lots of great info and great people here that are always willing to help.

Russ

 

[chad202]

Congrats on the new rig.

 

[JGray]

I was hoping I would hear from you Russ - I have read some of your other posts and know that you have altitude to contend with also. I am getting a lot of looks, that's for sure. I tend to agree that it would be better learning to drive with cable steering before going to hydraulic. To clarify, my setback is currently 12", but could be adjusted to 13.5" however, I think I will leave this alone for now. I am getting different views regarding motor height. Some have said leave it alone (1.5" below pad) until I have more seat time, others have said "beginners" should start at 1" below and go up to 1/4" below as experience is gained, and you are suggesting 1/2" below to start. If 1.5" below is low enough to cause handling problems, then I probably should raise it, but I am hesitant to start making changes for the time being. I think the best approach may be to address the steering and get it propped where I want it, and then drive it for a while before any other changes. I will keep you posted on my progress, and will probably have more questions in the near future.

I appreciate the warm welcome and all the input everyone has provided.

Jerry

 

[Jimxb02]

I would get more seat time with your current set up. Do get your stearing set so you have as little play as possible.

But, I think you will find that the boat will be easier to drive with your motor higher. After your next time out I would raise it 1/2 inch.
When you are really comfortable in the boat I think you will find that 1/4 inch below the pad will be the best all around height.

Good luck !!!


Jim

 

[Kevin from FL]

Welcome Jerry, you are going to love that boat man.

For the life of me I can't figure out why the engine is 1 1/2" below :? That doesn't make sense to me. When I bought my boat in 97 new, I had the dealer set it up for best all round use. He set the setback at 12" and had the motor set so when the hydro plate was all the way up, it was 1/4" below the pad. I leave it at 1/4" below unless I get in some real rough water and then I lower it about an inch.

As said, fix the slack in the steering first. You've read enough about the other stuff.

Have fun and we will always try to help out.

 

[fishnfireman]

Hey Russ

RB in New Mexico,

Hey bud we had our tournament at Ute two weeks ago.
Have you seen the Marina ? That North wind did quite a number on it!!
We will be at Conchas the 4th-5th. Maybe we will run into ya.

Just curious----- how many rpms can you turn a 28 at Ute?
Or a 26 Trophy?

 

[AllisonNewb97]

J, I agree with Russ and Kevin on getting your motor up higher. I found after I raised mine from 1.75" below the pad to present setting it was easier to drive. As for where the previous owner would trim his motor to, I would do the same until you get comfortable. I made my first WOT run with it tucked in (still scary fast then), and after a while just worked my way up to where I am now. You'll get it, just baby steps. Like said before, it's like riding a bike. Narrow, convex pad.... not wide flat pad. And small corrections with the wheel. I caused more problems snatching on the wheel instead of making minor adjustments.

 

[RB in NM]

Jerry,

You are on the right track bud...! One thing for sure, if you leave it 1.5 below and learn to drive her, You will not believe the difference running 1/2 to 1/4" below will make..It will be an instant improvement that will put another smile on yer face!

I had two 26 choppers on hand, but they are now enroute to the Hackneys for ET cuts, else I'd loan ya one to try.


Fireman, Have not been to UTE in a while. I have not done any hard running their since my new power. So I can't comment honestly on the 28 their. I did run my 28 et cut down at the Butte at 92.9 @ 6900 by myself, but with a full load of gas,tackle, minnkota 74lb, and 1/2 livewell full.
I don't know if I can make Ute on the weekend of the 5th as I have races the following weekend down at Elephant Butte, 11th-12th. Sure would like to met ya over there tho......Hummmmm,,,, lemme' do some checking..
Had not heard about the wind damage lately, it does blow up out there fast and bad sometimes. I was out there 5 years ago, on the lake when a tornado came thru. wild times.

Russ

 

[xb2003]

Congratulations and welcome to da family Allisonnewbie. Do ya have an idea on how to tighten the steering yourself? If not...Just ask. I say raise the motor and get a smaller prop. You'll be at a 1/4 below in no time....Don't get discouraged.

Now...Get out there and wash ya stickers.

 

[White Ally02]

Congratulations on ya Ally, Take your time in learnin to drive her.