Allison boats and the Shrinkage Factor...

[G Allen]

Got my new ride on the water today for the first real shakedown on one of my home high mountain reservoirs. water is at 6200 ft above sea level. There was no courtesy dock next to the launch ramp where I could let the boat off the trailer and walk on the dock to step onto the boat floating next to it. The water temp was 51 degrees, the air temp was in the 40's, the weather was overcast and the air was humid. So I had to wade in water most of the way to my knees at launch and back onto the trailer. My Elmer Fudd hat from snowmaking at Deer Valley had the chin strap snugged up tight, I had some brown overalls on with thermals top and bottom. wearing sandals with wool socks on because I did not own a pair of hip boots. Gonna find me a pair of LaCrosses real soon after today!

This was the first time really driving an Allison. I had done several laps through the RED BOOK, have gotten quite a few messages from fellow forum members, a couple personal phone calls from a couple of them that lasted quite a while. It does take a village. I got to drive mine with no experienced helper, on my own, self taught. Nobody could come and sit next to me because mine is likely the only Allison in my state.

It had a third of a tank of old premix, and I did not know how old the gas really was. So I went cruising, and one of the things I noticed was that even though the motor had a lot more power than the one in my previous boat, this XTB-21 with a 150 Merc Promax got better gas mileage by far. It went a good half hour at least, on plane, after the fuel guage was displaying empty with no movement from fuel sloshing...

Then after I dropped off plane, let it idle a few and started to goose it to get back up, it finally stuttered to a halt. During that cruise as well as occasional high speed bursts, the temp guage stayed near the bottom of the readings unless I had it on plane at 3500rpm or less.

I had stuck a pair of 12 gallon portable boat tanks filled with fresh 91 octane premix. on the outsides of the back deck, I wanted to duplicate the high center of gravity effect of putting a heavy 3 liter or big-ass 4 stroke on the back to see how low it would float and how it would behave when I tried to get it on the pad for the chine walk thang. The rub rails stayed out of the water. I went about my self taught driving lesson. Learned quite a bit, wax on, wax off grasshopper indeed! Did get the pedal floored for a half minute to a minute at a time and lived. My eyelids were flapping up and down and my eyeballs were bouncing up and down in their sockets , hit around 5600 rpm or so. I was pretty busy, learning about the interaction of trimming up and down, was in a 45 degree crosswind around 15-20 mph the whole time. Noticed that the boat had it's own lateral oscillating frequency, one complete cycle per second. When the fuel ran out, I used a safety siphon hose and emptied that pair of 12's into the main tank, then started school again. Not much difference from before, the center of gravity was certainly lower now, but the boat behaved almost as it had before. The fresh gas and Blue Marble 2 stoke oil allowed me to hit 5800 this time, the prop was a Hydromotive over/ under hub, think it was 26 pitch. I was going faster than any boat I had driven...by FAR.

What I was not expecting was how true Dubmoney's comment was about when driving that Allison, that the LAKE would SHRINK...It DID! To a THIRD of its former size! HAAAAAAAH!

When I decided to go back to the dock and call it a good afternoon, I went into the wind straight on, for the first time, and discovered that controlling the chine dance was much more easy! Not a bad first time out! Was SO much fun!

Whipper, you were right! An Allison boat IS an awesome investment for someone getting ready to retire in a few years!

 

[SLOmofo]

Let the force be with you.... Elmer.

 

[G Allen]

If not the force then at least the Fudd-ness! Thanks!

 

[ntxwaterfowl]

Funny how fast you run out of lake isn’t it? I know my lakes seem smaller now and I haven’t even learned how to air it out. Sounds like you had a blast, I love fishing and have hardly fished out of mine, just want to drive it. Going stir crazy now because our ramps are closed due to flooding. I’m ready for winter so I can take it out with some cooler air temps and see about winding it out, now I just need the Elmer Fudd hat!

 

[G Allen]

I have been following your adventures, sir! Kinda think that the reason I was able to have so much fun is because:
1) I lost about 22-25% of my available power from running at high altitude
2) The design of the 30 year old hull I am driving might be less squirrely (XTB21)
3) I'm the fourth owner and the boat has been set up exquisitely by previous owners. 14 inch setback on a 150 promax, propshaft center even with the pad. coned 2/1 ratio gearcase, 26 in pitch Trophy 4 blade.
4) The most previous owner put in Hydraulic Steering.
5) I've gone that fast plenty of times on snow skis. Haaah! Not relevant!

A bit sad because my fave redneck construction coat blew out the back never to be seen again. From now on the next Carhartt will be draped across the back of my ass bucket. Or might get a black onesie Carhartt insulated drinking suit to go with the black Fudd hat. The high desert lake fishing is gonna get hot right before it freezes. Quite a few times in the past I needed to dip the rod in the water to retrieve line because the rod guides freeze with solid plugs of ice. My hands hate that time!

Did fish today, caught a 2 pound rainbow within an hour of starting, got the skunk off the boat. He swam again because I had Kokes in the freezer at home.

Since I lost my coat I decided to pan fry a headless and tail less fat li'l Koke with shoulders that barely fit in a 12 inch cast iron skillet with olive oil, kosher salt, fresh ground peppercorns, dried tarragon leaves, and a bunch of capers. Chef D'Zastaire is in the house. Time to chow!

 

[ntxwaterfowl]

Sounds like you got a really nice boat with some good set up for sure, I thought about an XTB a few times and if I’m ever fortunate enough I would love to find one on the edge of gone and restore it as a fun project.
Now what’s that ‘ice’ stuff you are talking about on the rod tip? I think your winter will be a bit colder and longer than mine, you better find a new Carhart, those things are definitely worth it on a cold day with some wind! Keep enjoying that boat, I’m excited for you and look forward to hearing more adventures

 

[G Allen]

I could not believe it! Went back to the lake two days later and the Carhartt was draped and dried out on a sign along the walkway to the courtesy dock...Wow! Happy to have another chance. That coat is as fugly as my Fudd hat, so maybe it wasn't cool enough to covet, or maybe there are some honest people in Utah after all.

So I celebrated by doing retail therapy. Of course that meant spending 40 times what the coat was worth instead of just getting a 50 dollar bottle of Single Malt.

Ebayed an Ultrex, ordered wide and 360 'ducers for it and my recent purchase Helix 10. Ordered a Cannon Digi-troll 10 to go with the Digi-troll 4 I already have. Gonna stick a pair of rod holder style mounts in the front deck gunwales for those down riggers and run power from the start battery to them. The Ultrex spot lock will be cool for hanging out and jigging, besides being easier to drop balls with the steering staying put when the foot leaves the control pedal. Came up with a name for her... the "Koke Whore."

Re power is gonna be the next project. Not in a huge hurry on that, but think something 225-300 is gonna be what will replace the missing speed. Promax 150 is running rich, especially on low end and midrange. Spark plugs are reading too oily and cold, they are NGK BR8HS. It's down almost 20mph compared to sea level.

At least I won't have to worry about overheating here with the colder water temps and running rich. Blue Marble oil and Ring Free additive in the premix keep the carbon from building up. Compared to the other rigs here the XTB is still pretty fast. There was a bass tournament on the lake last Saturday, a couple guys in a cabin cruiser said I was the fastest boat on the lake that day. But there were no 21 foot cookie cutters with 250-300's out. Was too cold for most sane people.

 

[silverbullet02]

You'll have to put up some pictures when you get all that stuff in her! Have you had it out since the first time? Curious what speeds you're seeing up there.

 

[G Allen]

Just enough speed to get squirrely...lowest 60's, 5800-ish rpm at 6200 ft altitude, about 20 mph less than reported at sea level. Been out three times so far. Going out tomorrow after today's science project...Found some lateral slop in the clamp tilt pivot area, may not be much of an effect in steering with the motor down in operating trim, but there WAS a fat quarter inch of slop, there is a large, like 1 1/4 inch nylock nut on the starboard end of what I call the trim pivot axle that had worked loose over time from the trim going up and down, and an adjustable spacer to the outside of it that was not where it should be either. Steering goes back and forth inside that hollow axle. Got after it when the sun got warmed up and got everything all snugged back up like it should be. Went easy on torquing that big nut, just enough to keep it from moving when I raised the motor up and down.

Gonna get the grease gun out and find all the zerks, pump and push the old grease out and and clean off the old black oozes. There is about a sixteenth inch of lateral slop in the hydro cylinder, but not gonna mess with that. Can't hurt to snug the easy stuff up.

Did some checking with my local dealer to see if they could order a 300R for my ride, but ignant me found out no go, they are not Merc racing motor certified. So it looks like a big grunt 250-300 two stroke 20" with a sportmaster gearcase is in my future. And since Merc stopped making two strokes I need to get busy and find something in existing inventory, whatever a non racer cert dealer can mount and rig for me. Was going to wait a year, but today's reality check is creating a bit of urgency, available inventory is going to vanish quickly. For the amount of money I will have to spend, I prefer something with a factory warranty.

 

[ntxwaterfowl]

I wonder if the new 300xs v8 would be that different than the 300r? I know there is some power difference involved with ecu, intake, etc. but I would still think it would be close and that your shop should be able to mount it. I know I'm planning to repower to a used 250x or xs whenever that day comes. A new motor would be awesome but way out of my range and I've seen quite a few nice ones with under 300 hours or so at reasonable prices but it will be a few years for me most likely.

Can't believe your Carhart was there waiting for you, that's pretty awesome.

 

[G Allen]

Wrote an email to Mercury customer service dept yesterday. Their reply today said that rigging a 300R is same as any of their other V8's in their lineup. So the guy at my dealer provided me incorrect info. My adjustment work on the pivot area of my Promax 150 made a big difference in the handling of the boat at speed. That motor is actually sitting on a 225 promax mid and hard clamp.

 

[Dave Hensley]

225 ProMax would be the best choice. Lots of great rebuilders for that motor around. New blocks still available from Mercury. 40 amp charging system, simple to troubleshoot and it would drop on your mid and adapter. Those motors are basically bullet proof and you don't have the compressor to spend money on down the road, or rails to clean or air injectors to replace/clean. 225 ProMax makes 240-245 hp in stock form. Get one that has been built with Vertex or WSM pistons and steel rod bearing cages and forget about it. You are going to run rich at that altitude. I am not a big fan of the aftermarket ECU available for that motor but in your case a steam wheel to lean the motor down would be nice.

 

[G Allen]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Dave! And thanks to some help from a previous owner I learned how to lean out the midrange at least on this motor, it ran really well for me yesterday. But that low 60's present top speed is where the handling becomes interesting. Am starting to get used to it and losing some fear. Just ordered a repair manual for that motor so I can learn about how to tweak the ignition timing a bit. No matter what, I likely won't see much speed increase.

The motor on my boat is a mongrel. The BB block powerhead is a 1993, the second owner experienced a trim ram failure on the original mid, replacing it with the present 225 promax mid. The gearcase is also not original, it is a 1988 150 preload type with a Titus nosecone on it. It has had the skeg welded...twice. The present 2/1 gears were installed in 1994 by that second owner, and that case experienced a lot of high speed use/abuse in its history. In order to take this motor to where it ought to be, the powerhead and gearcase both will need replacing.

As a safety precaution, I found and won the auction for a gently used Lifeline life vest with the leg straps on eBay, it will be here in a week. The self inflating vests that came with the boat are not designed for high speed impact. Most of the time I am the only one on board.

Not living in the motherland and not knowing who the "Great Ones" are, I'm self-orphaned as likely the only Allison owning pioneer here... Hence the interest in the 300R with the 20" solid mount heavy duty mid, and cambered skeg sportmaster, complete with factory warranty. At my altitude I likely will see the same kind of power with a 300R that the Promax 225 has at sea level. If I ordered one of those this week there would be a decent chance for one to arrive by next April, the beginning of next year's boating season here. The high weight and center of gravity is a real concern, but to offset, the high altitude top speed will be 15-20mph less than in the motherland. If I go the 300R way am planning on shortening the Allison manual jackplate offset from 14 to 11 inches.

I would welcome a well built balanced/blueprinted with all the cool parts powerhead and sportmaster gearcase if I knew where to get them, am expecting a cash outlay of 8-11 grand for those and perhaps, yes, a steam wheel. That is a fair amount more money than just a rebuilt or new block, full on new build powerhead. The gamble is spending that kind of coin for no real warranty. Am open to some bona fide race motor builders to contact me or information on who the real motor Mack Daddies are and how to contact them, though. I see a lot of stuff on the various Allison, Bullet, Stroker, and Merc race motors and parts groups on FB but I see those listings coming from owners, not builders.

So spend half to two thirds of the money for no warranty or go all the way and get one? That is the question!

As I am typing this, Buster Brown came to the door with my new Digi-troll 10 and HB mega wide trolling motor 'ducer, by Wednesday the Ultrex will arrive, the and the Ultrex mount 360 'ducer as well. Thursday will be rigging day for the "Koke Whore!" to come to life!

 

[G Allen]

Progress report...All the Koke Whore's electronics toys were being mounted in the shop today, not quite finished, will be done tomorrow morning. Shop labor rates will be huge $$$ but will be a sanitary arrangement of all the added wiring spaghetti for the Ultrex, transducers, ethernet junction box, and pair of Digi-troll downriggers' mounts and power supplies. There is no way that I could do the quality of work by myself. Learned a lot by watching for several hours and listening. The Ultrex dropped into existing holes, no drilling for that. Mounting the downriggers required a hole saw, though. Yikes!

Put down a deposit on a fresh, <50 hours 225 promax powerhead today...need to find a 2 piece 225 promax adapter plate and tuner for my existing 225 promax mid, the present promax 150 powerhead, adapter plate and tuner on that mid now will have to go. Might have a better gearcase located. According to shop records there is only one other Allison in Utah, an XB2002 with a blown motor that has not been on the water in quite a while. I'm truly an orphan here!

 

[SLOmofo]

"I feel your pain" ......"Mounting the downriggers required a hole saw, though. Yikes!" ...... It takes so little time to drill a hole....but so much to pull the trigger.

 

[G Allen]

The outside the box thinking is focused to get my Allison to do what those (for me) uber expensive walleye boats do, but better. A fully rigged walleye boat can cost a lot more than a new bass boat does. There are bass boat builders who define, and the cookie cutters follow. There are cookie cutter walleye boats, too! The material of choice is aluminum instead of fiberglass, except for the most expensive designs like Skeeter's and Ranger's models.

Cookie cutter aluminum walleye boats have tremendously surged in popularity in my area. This past summer I was Bayliner Bob getting my butt kicked in the fishing department by them on Flaming Gorge and Strawberry reservoirs, both are iconic Kokanee fishing waters, among the best in the nation. They had way superior fishfinders and layout for what they do except for one thing...the downriggers and trolling propulsion that gave them their edge caused their occupants to face backwards to the boat's direction of travel. They have to turn around to see where they are going! Their overwhelming majority users have to listen to the droning putt putt of their stern mounted kicker motors hour after hour, many of which emit besides their maddening noise... stinking exhaust emissions that often waft forward into the backwards facing passengers blissfully breathing it in...two stroke blue fog or invisible four stroke fumes, things that made me go me me go hmmm...and those boats would seem to congregate over productive parts of those water like a herd of sheople. I could see them from miles away grouped together, and curiosity occasionally caused me to join.

My primitive 80's vintage fish finder could see more fish in those areas, but I was at the time not equipped with downriggers, I was using surface trolling gear and gaining the necessary depth by using rubber core sinkers or diving planers attached to the lines. Some of these boats had two or four downriggers in use at a time. Their better fishfinders allowed them to see more deep underwater structure, and their multiple downriggers tugging multiple flashers from the balls as well as the fishing lines clipped to those cables seemed to seemed to call in the fish from afar much more effectively than my setup, some of those downriggers emit electricity radiating outwards, sensed 30 -40 feet from their steel cables, two or more on the same boat caused that boat to carry a huge underwater electrical field column along with them, they would get into a pod of fish and multiple hookups were viewed by Bayliner Bob while his best presentation afforded got no love from the fish. The fish were being stimulated by the massive invisible columns of electricity as well as the massive visual commotion from all the walleye boat's congregated flasher hardware in the water to get pissed off and defend their territory. Add a small plastic squid or spoon with some scent following a dodger and they will eat the irritating and smelly invaders of their domain. Kinda like a basser tossing a plastic bait over a spawning bed.

it is easy to see a walleye boat from a long ways off. The spray from their short fat high sided hard chine hulls blows a lot of sideways spray 30 or more feet wide to the sides, easy to see on plane from even a couple miles off on a glassy water morning. When the throttle is chopped, they stop planing very quickly and drop right off plane like a skipping rock when it sinks. Their hulls are tremendously inefficient. They are gas hogs, even with four stroke power. A 20 footer with a 250 HP big motor and a ten horse kicker is common, cruising speed is in the low 30's or mid 40's at best. For an Allison owner to drive? Boooooring!

Hence the setup on my rig. I can look forward while fishing, they can't. The speed of 1.2 to 2 mph can easily be done from a bowmount trolling motor, and the electric trolling motor is far quieter and less obnoxious to listen to. The music on the boat's stereo does not need to be loud to be pleasantly heard. Crosswinds are easy to correct when the motor is pulling rather than pushing the boat. The walleye boats have an trolling edge when their kickers are pushing them into the wind, but the noise of the waves slapping their hulls can put the fish off. Going in to the wind eats up a bass boat's trolling batteries quickly as a negative factor.

The front gunwales of my XTB are a sandwich of fiberglass, three inches of foam, and another layer of fiberglass. That makes the installation of downriggers' mounts problematic. The rod holder style of mount provides a strong, rigid setup, but it is really emotionally painful to watch a hole saw ripping into that beautiful fiberglass! The pile of fiberglass and foam debris on the shop floor and boat carpet was gut wrenching to view.

The wide transducer on the trolling motor will allow me to see a lot more of what is under the boat structure wise, and the reason for the 360 'ducer is to see fish underwater in front of the boat and steer the presentation toward them... often it looks like I'm out in the middle of nowhere when looking out around and on top of the lake...disconcerting compared to bass fishing around easily seen lake edge, stump, and brush structure cues. Some guys are using underwater cameras clipped to the downrigger balls to observe how the fish react to their presentations...

As soon as I finish writing this post, I am going to drive down from my high mountain valley home down to the big city, go to the shop and watch them finish up the rigging. Most bass fishing takes place in the top 25 feet of the water column. I still have a great fishing and fast, efficient bass boat hull, but now have access to fishing trolling or jigging 90 feet deep or more besides the top column species. In addition, the spot lock on the trolling motor will allow me to park and jig over underwater structure at those previously unobtainable depths for those 40 pound lake trout or those smelly, fugly looking snake like poor man's lobster meaty Burbot invading the Flaming Gorge, a problematic, illegally introduced species. That increased the owner's fishing value of my 30 year old fourth owner boat to the same at least to the $$$ 90k or more walleye rigs in the shop's showroom. Win!

 

[SLOmofo]

Burbot..... freshwater cod. At first look I thought it was a Sculpin. "Most bass fishing takes place in the top 25 feet of the water column." When I fished bass tournaments I usually fished outside. Just yesterday the fish {bass) were 25+ feet deep. Lake is starting to turn over. You have me interested in your type of fishing.

 

[G Allen]

Flaming Gorge is Allison type water without Allisons ever seen on it! it's around 70 miles long and has smallies in it besides Kokes, Macks, Splakes, and 'Bows. the Wyoming fish and game department is so worried about the Burbot that anglers are asked to not release caught ones, they even allow underwater spear fishing with lights for them at night! They also want anglers to keep the smaller lake trout pups, they are great eating! There is a Burbot derby every year. Some fishermen fill 30-40 gallon tubs with the burbot they catch. There is a couple good youtube videos on cleaning and filleting them, there is a lot of meat on one.

I did get the boat home today from the shop, the labor and parts to mount, install and wire the Digi-troll downriggers, install the Ultrex, mount the mega wide and 360 'ducers on the Ultrex, and install/hook up the multi port ethernet box was 1750 bucks for parts and labor. Was all day yesterday and half of today for them to get the work done, The trolling and downriggers when mounted make the boat look smaller, but meaner. Now I need to fix the leaky front livewell and re seal the leaking livewell water intake plug on the stern. There is a bunch of relic fishfinder transducers' wires and holes that need cleaning up and plugging from the three previous owners all over the stern and even underneath. It's boogered fugly down there. Good winter garage project...also buffing the fiberglass, there's 30-50 hours of work waiting for that one, even with the cool power tools from Griot's. The Mr. Clean magic eraser trick is not going to be nearly enough to bring it back.

 

[dubmoney]

You should post a pic of your "machine" with the down riggers. It has to be one of the most heavily equipped Allisons ever!! Looks like a war machine, headed to battle the deep lakes! Awesome to see someone totally pimp out an xtb for fishing the way no one I have ever done before. I think the down rigger mounts turned out really good, and supports your decision to go with the XTB rather than the 02. If you want me to post the picture let me know.

 

[G Allen]

I tried, but can't figure out how to. I sent each one to my email account, then put them in a folder. But I don't know what to do from there. Please do! Thanks so much!

The XTB's gunwale's three or so inch thick fiberglass/foam fiberglass sandwich made for a more sturdy mount for downriggers than I ever anticipated. I think I could safely leave them in their mounts and go chop across the top of the windy surface slop at normal Allison boat speeds with no problems. Also, the 12v Cannon downrigger power sockets could be easily placed in other parts of the boat for additional fishfinders or other electronics as well. Plug and play indeed!