280 rebuild time

Westy

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I have two cylinders that are leaking down past 20%, the rest are between 8-10%. I plan to pull the power head and have it rebuilt with top pin pistons. Any recommendations on a engine builder and what pistons would you have put in?

I live in AZ and would not trust anyone in Phoenix that I currently know so I don't mind shipping the powerhead to someone out of state. I want to have a reliable pump gas motor when I'm done.

Westy
 

catfish123

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Just curious........have you performed a compression test and are both the high leak down cylinders on the right side of the motor?
 

Westy

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Just curious........have you performed a compression test and are both the high leak down cylinders on the right side of the motor?
Catfish: The two that are leaking over 20% are both on the port side. I'm not sure how the cylinders are numbered on an outboard. Are they 1,3,5 on the starboard side and 2,4,6 on the port side starting on the top?

Westy
 

Westy

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Whipper and Bobalouie:

I've emailed JSRE and got some pricing which was right about where I thought they would be. I just like hearing from you guys on who you would use. I need to make sure I'm doing the right thing for my baby:big grin. Thanks guys.

Westy
 

Volatile

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Diamond is expensie but very good.
Extreme Marine in Waterford WI is excellent and close to Ruck. Wintech is excellent.
Hensley is great. Jacos is great. Lawrenceburg Marine is great. Brendan Powers in Clearwater FLA is great. Caldwell Racing is great and we work with him quite a bit (he runs our reeds and wrist pins). Almost every single builder will send your block to Ruck for straightening of the bores and diamond honing. Almost every builder will use Dean's pistons (Wizards), however, your original 280 pistons are likely not worn out and can be top pinned by John Marles. We assemble with both and have had excellent results. If you get prices IN ADVANCE, including shipping of your block to Ruck etc. you will be able to comparison shop. A simple dropon powerhead rebuild can cost anywhere from $600 to $750 or more. I would definitely NOT do a lot of cutting on the block. Most people going from a 280 to drag 300 specs are disappointed if they run pump gas. The loss of bottom end without using tight heads and racing fuel is noticable, as is the extra wear from having to turn more rpms. A simple rod slot roll and a trough type transfer cut like Brendan does, and a roll of the sharp corner in the exhaust will improve the 6000-8000 rpm power a little. A set of FULLY encapsulated wrist pins will improve the entire powerband, as will decking the front and dropping the reeds deeper, or using Goodman stuffers. The 280 as it sits is a very well designed motor. A simple rebuild is what I would recommend unless you are racing. Don't let people sell you on too many extras except the things mentioned. That is how we rebuild them. We ALWAYS drive the block over to Ruck and have it thoroughly inspected. We use genuine mercury parts. Some paper gaskets are fine aftermarket, but OEM internals are best . Also note that depending on the amount of hours on your motor, you may not need new rod and main bearings. Many times a builder will try to get you to buy these items. Roller bearings by nature are designed not to wear much at all and can be measured for wear. Measuring things like ring gap, bearing and crank wear, bore diameter and straightness as not done by every builder. Ask questions. Anyone can rebuild a Merc V6 if they follow the service manual. Not everyone knows the little details or follows the manual correctly.
Don't be hasty on this.
Ask the guys over at Byuboyz.com before you choose a builder. They are the racers that are in the know. ;)
 

SLOmofo

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"Don't be hasty on this.
Ask the guys over at Byuboyz.com before you choose a builder. They are the racers that are in the know. ;) "

Very true!

As to Top Pinning, some here and myself have had problems with it. I don't think I'd ever do it again!
 

h2oskiier30

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Most of the guys over on byuboyz don't like Jay personally...really has very little to do with his motor building ability.

Jay is cocky. That is a fact. Rubs some people the wrong way. That is also a fact.

Can he do a really nice lake motor build....absolutely.

And will probably get it back to you quicker than most every other name mentioned.
 

whipper

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Violate is true on builders and there work I can think of some more also and they all send some work out to Ruck,Wizzard pistons ect as does Jay use these people and products... I would send my motor to any of the builders he mentioned also. I just like Jay and I know he also does great work as do the others. Its not rocket science. Its a 2.5 two stroke.:big grin There are little tricks though were experiance comes into play. Jay would be right there with the best of them. Hes very good at explaining things also in his own way.:big grin To each his own. I would almost say who ever is closest with in reason. Example. Though I would love Jay to do my motor, im near Alaska and hes in TX. In Vancouver a mear 700 miles south is the closest person i would have do my motor Lee Davies. He knows his stuff also. Good luck.
 
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jas638

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Most of the guys over on byuboyz don't like Jay personally...really has very little to do with his motor building ability.

Jay is cocky. That is a fact. Rubs some people the wrong way. That is also a fact.

Can he do a really nice lake motor build....absolutely.

And will probably get it back to you quicker than most every other name mentioned.
i will say from my experience with jay that the third & last statement on turn around time is true. now him being cocky,well i guess when you can back it up it dont hurt too brag!!!! here is some of jays work!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk3q50sHge8
 

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This isn't a post about Jay, so please don't make it one. Everyone has their favorite builder. Just like Chevy/Ford/ Dodge. I like Ponitacs and Buicks personally.
Whipper and Slomofo are just stating that people have options. Just as mentioned, Jay is one of many builders. Prices vary, turn around as mentioned can vary, skill level, shipping time and proximity also vary. The mods are pretty standard across the board if you choose to modify. Rebuilds only are even more standard. If the racers on Byuboyz don't seem to like him ,then thats their choice. Everyone has opinions and choices to make. Jay may be one persons choice as an engine builder, and there are lots of reasons to choose a builder. There are also lots of builders with videos and winning boats. Lots more builders weren't mentioned and I never once mentioned our own shop either. Glen Reynolds, Phil Conant, Performance Outboards (Ryan), Dale Hill, Eric Simon, Ron Anderson, Seebold Marine, Mumford in GA., John Marles in CA and so on. Many cut their teeth on F1 racing or are building winning drag boats and bassers.
BTW I would suggest that you have way too much initial timing on the motor in the video. You generally want less timing, a longer slide, and more air, so that the motor is crisper at idle. Lots of initial timing and less air tends to load up the motor. However, if you run a chip with 8-10% leaner bottom, that would allow you to run more timing. ;)
 
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catfish123

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Some have larger "cheering squads" than others. The internet can be a powerful tool and it is used by some more than others, and for a variety of reasons. Some of those who spend less time on the net may or may not be equal in building skills to those who spend more time on the net. It is the same with those who work props. Sometimes, those who can, "do", while others may be better in their "promotion" skills than they are in actual prop building. Certainly, the net provides us all with a great place to increase our knowledge of our boating passion. I love to read, apply some of it, and learn to improve my knowledge and overall enjoyment of boating.
 

Volatile

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Catfish123 , you are dead on spot. Perception can be reality to some folks. As long as the customer is happy I guess. Wheels, Bling, Curb feelers and neon lights abound.... ;) Some people sell the product better than others and some people build actual winning motors and never promote their skills except by word of mouth or when people see their work. Galen Burden for instance. Awesome builder and never toots his horn. Most builders have access to the exact same parts and as mentioned Ruck does just about 90% of all the actual block machine work, renik ( US Chrome ) and mods. You are basically paying for someone to assemble the motor. Rods may get done by Saldecki or its easy to do them with a good sander and .1g scale. Piston cutting requires a mill to do it precisely. Goodman (George or Chuck) do an awesome job. So does Marles or others. Jay does a good job on pistons and rods as well. The Diamond/ Powers/ Johnson Bros design on flywheels is safer / lighter btw. Jay is cheaper on flywheels and they look great.
Choices abound. Pontiacs Rule ;)
 

suicidealli

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Catfish123 , you are dead on spot. Perception can be reality to some folks. As long as the customer is happy I guess. Wheels, Bling, Curb feelers and neon lights abound.... ;) Some people sell the product better than others and some people build actual winning motors and never promote their skills except by word of mouth or when people see their work. Galen Burden for instance. Awesome builder and never toots his horn. Most builders have access to the exact same parts and as mentioned Ruck does just about 90% of all the actual block machine work, renik ( US Chrome ) and mods. You are basically paying for someone to assemble the motor. Rods may get done by Saldecki or its easy to do them with a good sander and .1g scale. Piston cutting requires a mill to do it precisely. Goodman (George or Chuck) do an awesome job. So does Marles or others. Jay does a good job on pistons and rods as well. The Diamond/ Powers/ Johnson Bros design on flywheels is safer / lighter btw. Jay is cheaper on flywheels and they look great.
Choices abound. Pontiacs Rule ;)

i agree, ruck is great! most people use him for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!
wizards a great choice out of the box. with a little work you can balance them better. some sets are really close, some need some attention. rods need some attention.
next step front half mods, reeds, and rock on!!!!!!! makes a 280 better!!!!!!!!!!
If your talking about drag racing, then there are all kinds of mods.
the engine builder list goes on and on.. bottom line is to get what your looking for. tell the builder what you want the motor to do!!!! let him advise you the best way to get there!!!!

roy
 

patches

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My only advice on this subject is don't let anybody talk you into cutting on that block. Any of the shops mentioned can rebuild a motor. The list gets extremely small when it comes to cutting on blocks
 

Westy

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My only advice on this subject is don't let anybody talk you into cutting on that block. Any of the shops mentioned can rebuild a motor. The list gets extremely small when it comes to cutting on blocks
I think that's the best advise on this tread after talking to some people in the know.

Thank You to all that responded and now I have the tools I need to make an informed decision.

Westy
 
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