260 Running tooooo rich HELP!

msagro

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My 260 is running so rich that at times it will not even accelerate to get on plane. I had Brucato check the ECU and flow and clean the injectors over the winter, not that one of them isn't causing the problem now. My question is where to start trying to diagnose, I am sure it has been doing this all year but now that it is hot outside it is much more noticeable. Is the only thing that can be checked the coolant sensor or are there some things I can check. Any help or ideas would be great.

thanks
Matt
 

K.Kiser

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I had one that was running very, very rich one time and it was way down on power and I couldn't get it to come off plane without dying whatsoever... In My case it turned out to be an almost clogged map vacuum tube and Champion spark plugs with weird OHM values that both were making My computer to go full rich... Cleaned the tube and put the correct NGK's in and it picked up probably 150 hp, I'm not kidding... Went from barely being able to break 55 mph, to running right at 90 mph in the 1/8th mile with those two changes only... Sounds like BS I'm sure but dat be da truth... May not be Your situation, but it's worth looking at...
 
J

John Richied

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This is on cars.... With EFI usually coolant temp sensor. Could also be high fuel pressure.
Gary this is a boat... two-stroke engine, not a car. :banghead

Sorry Gary had to do it... :LMAO:
 

msagro

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K.Kiser, actually it doesn't sound like BS, I have the correct NGK plugs in it and I did put in a new set just to make sure, and the first thing that I did was make sure that the vacuum port to the map sensor could be blown through. I did a little reading in a manual that I have and it looks as though this has an air temp sensor and not a coolant sensor, I can't imagine that it would make it go that fat but I guess it could. I think I will pull the fuel rail out today and make sure that none of the injectors are leaking down under static pressure. Not really sure how to check any of this stuff, did driveability on cars in the 80's and early 90's and don't like being helpless with how to check a part for good or bad.
 

msagro

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I just had another thought, I have had a problem with the engine shutting off at 5000 RPM and have just learned to drive it at any RPM other than that. I may try swapping the ignition switch boxes as I am assuming that one of them, not both, signals RPM to the ECU and maybe it is getting flaky signals so swapping them to the opposite places may at least change something. May just have to take it to Merc Dealer and have it looked at also.
 

Stace

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I don't know much about 260's but it sounds like a Throttle position sensor problem I had on my PM. Stace
 

SLOmofo

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With a good DVOM(Digital Volt OHM Meter) you can test almost anything but they cant see sudden changes. With a Snap On, Vantage Graphing multi meter you can see on the graph, drop outs and spikes in Milli seconds. Since they have been replaced by the Vantage Pro, if you can find one they are cheep. $300 is what I paid for one about 4 years ago.
The temp sensors,ATS or WTS if heated and the Ohms watched carefully with a DVOM should gradually increase or decrease in resistance. What you are looking for is a sudden change, spike up or down. Make sure you have secure connections so they don't influence the readings.
Throttle Position Sensors(TPS) watch the change in value as the throttle is opened and closed. Same gradual change. Since it is a mechanical device the wear point is in the area most used. On a car it is usually at normal cruise point, or just above closed throttle . When you first check them don't open them WOT then back to idle as it might wipe the problem area clean. Just start at idle and slowly open the throttle sweeping just above idle and around normal cruise points.
Manifold Absolute Sensors(MAP) the thing with the vacuum line. Sensor has to see minute changes in vacuum. Any blockage, restriction, fluid, in the port, fitting, hose will slow the response of the sensor.
Inputs(sensors), powers and grounds. These are what an ECU needs to see to give the correct output to the injectors and ignition. If you see any thing green (corrosion) make it clean, cut it out and seal it away from the air with Dielectric Grease. Your working with Milli voltage doesn't take much resistance to skew the signals. Bull in, Bull out.
 

msagro

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Thanks SLOmofo, this doesn't even have a tps on it. Are these a 5 volt system like GM used to be?

With a good DVOM(Digital Volt OHM Meter) you can test almost anything but they cant see sudden changes. With a Snap On, Vantage Graphing multi meter you can see on the graph, drop outs and spikes in Milli seconds. Since they have been replaced by the Vantage Pro, if you can find one they are cheep. $300 is what I paid for one about 4 years ago.
The temp sensors,ATS or WTS if heated and the Ohms watched carefully with a DVOM should gradually increase or decrease in resistance. What you are looking for is a sudden change, spike up or down. Make sure you have secure connections so they don't influence the readings.
Throttle Position Sensors(TPS) watch the change in value as the throttle is opened and closed. Same gradual change. Since it is a mechanical device the wear point is in the area most used. On a car it is usually at normal cruise point, or just above closed throttle . When you first check them don't open them WOT then back to idle as it might wipe the problem area clean. Just start at idle and slowly open the throttle sweeping just above idle and around normal cruise points.
Manifold Absolute Sensors(MAP) the thing with the vacuum line. Sensor has to see minute changes in vacuum. Any blockage, restriction, fluid, in the port, fitting, hose will slow the response of the sensor.
Inputs(sensors), powers and grounds. These are what an ECU needs to see to give the correct output to the injectors and ignition. If you see any thing green (corrosion) make it clean, cut it out and seal it away from the air with Dielectric Grease. Your working with Milli voltage doesn't take much resistance to skew the signals. Bull in, Bull out.
 

msagro

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any body know what kind of resistance the air temp sensor should have or the range, mine is setting at 2 ohms probably 75 degrees, have no idea what range I am looking for but 2 ohms aint much
 

SLOmofo

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Thanks SLOmofo, this doesn't even have a tps on it. Are these a 5 volt system like GM used to be?
Shows ya how much I know about a Merc. Which is Nada. :confused

Only a MAP sensor to tell load makes it even more critical. Any leak to atmosphere, pin hole, loose fit of hose or fitting, collapsed hose is going to effect in a major way.

Cars with vacuum controlled objects like an Anti back fire control valve, you would get a backfire even if it got vacuum but the signal was slow(slow vacuum)because the supply port was partly blocked or the fitting which had a filter media in it was dirty with gum and varnish, the hose was soft and would collapse and stick together.

5 volt or reference voltage. There again cant tell you if it does or doesn't. If it does and any way, make sure all ground attachment points are clean and tight. I pull on the wires to see if the wire is broken inside the insulation and then take it off and clean/sand/scrape both the terminal and point of contact. Trouble with wiring is sometimes all the strands are broken except for one. With an OHM meter the resistance will be good but under load that single strand will not pass all the current therefore skew the value due to resistance.

A way check is a Volt Drop Test. Goggle it. This checks the circuit under load. If there is no load I'll put something like a tail light/brake bulb in the circiut then test it. Bigger wire size a head light. I make sure every thing is disconnected before doing this, cuz I don't like to "Let the smoke out!" of things.

On electrical systems always disconnect the battery, negative first then positive, and then the ECU plug. When reconnecting, ECU then, positive first then negative.

Computers use very low signal strength on many circuits. Electrical noise can/will carry on these circuits. Bad diodes in charging systems and Ignition systems will cause many weird problems. A poor connection at a battery will cause problems.

Electricity is lazy just like water and liberals, they will follow the path of least resistance
 
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BigRedAlli

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At 75 degreese the air temp sensor should read around 7500 ohms. You sure your checking the right sensor? It's the round black one under the starter.
Be sure to check the round 8-pin connector from the ECU also. Common problem for the pins to get a poor fit. You can tighten most of them up with a small screw driver. Just stick it in the pin slot and give it a little twist. Also double check ALL your grounds!!!

Hope ya get it figgured out.
 

msagro

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I am sure I was on the correct sensor, I will recheck the resistance with a different ohm meter but either way the manual shows that with the sensor shorted it will go 10% lean, well at 2 ohms if that is correct it should be leaning the motor not making it rich. With that being said, I stated earlier that I had the correct plugs and I was wrong, the manual calls for a NGK BUZ8H plug and I have BU8H plugs, from what I can tell the plug I am running is a non resister plug and the one called for is a resister plug, this could make a huge difference on cars that I worked on in years past so I am going to start there. I also pulled the fuel rail and made sure no injectors were dribbling and that the spray pattern looked good on all, I will find out next weekend where I stand thanks for the suggestions.

Also,
BigRedAlli, I hope I get it figured out also.

thanks again

Matt

At 75 degreese the air temp sensor should read around 7500 ohms. You sure your checking the right sensor? It's the round black one under the starter.
Be sure to check the round 8-pin connector from the ECU also. Common problem for the pins to get a poor fit. You can tighten most of them up with a small screw driver. Just stick it in the pin slot and give it a little twist. Also double check ALL your grounds!!!

Hope ya get it figgured out.
 

SSTOM

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Get a set of BR9HS10 for your 260 I had non resistor plugs in mine wouldn't run worth a crap put the R's in and what a differance. Good luck Tom
 

BigRedAlli

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I've heard of others having similar problems as yours useing non-resistor plugs with a digital ecu. You may have found your problem. Like Tom said, the NGK's are a good plug for the 260's. He uses BR9HS-10 and I use BR8HS-10 which is a little hotter plug. Best thing abont them is they are $1.97ea. at the local parts house...:cool
 

SLOmofo

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Put the correct plug in the correct heat range first. Once it's running correctly then maybe play with heat range. Be aware different brand plugs some go hotter the higher the number and others go lower. Cold plugs foul, hot plugs burn holes in pistons. :gasp

When my engine was on the dyno the engines ECU wasn't effected, engine ran correctly. The Dyno computer and the computer used for mapping were. Enough so that the mapping computer would just shut down in a very short time. To get it to work, Dave had to twist the 12 volt power and ground wires together among other things. The radiation from the inductive coils was too great. Once these were done no problems.
 
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