2020 setup XB21 300R 160 gears..

[twsykes]

Hey guys,
Got a new 2020 XB21 300R and starting to work on the setup.... Anyone got any tips? I have not checked where Neutral is yet but once I do I am just wondering what anyone has found with the new engines and the XB21.

I also have a 12 with a 250 as well and these are 2 different boats for sure... Love the V8 just getting ready to start with the setup on the 2020

 

[twsykes]

Sooo... Found Neutral to be about 6ish on trim and 4.2 on JP. 1.25 above neutral is at 5.2 on JP (seastar extreme) and 6ish and I ran the boat up to about 89 and the bow lifted up to a point that made me let out because I thought it would blow over..... I was very surprised by the amount of lift the new 300R has compared to the old 250 pro XS with SM gear case.... Love the torque of this engine but that lift is going to take some playing with for sure to get use to... The boat actually seems super drivable with the plate at zero and trim at 6 ish... Once I start trimming it up the steering tightens jp a good bit and it becomes tougher to drive for sure... Anyone seeing similar stuff? I know this thing will fly when right but this is a different beast so I am trying to be reserved. LOL

 

[RiverRocket]

I haven't seen that on my XB21 Prosport. I trimmed to Neutral with my XS for top speed and the R is the same. What prop are you running? Max 5 by any chance? If so, that prop runs a little different than most. Otherwise, the Bravo, Promax, P4, P3, and Hydros have all seemed to run the same for me on the XS vs. the R.

I ran a 2 seater this weekend with a 300R 1.75 as well with a bunch of my faster wheels. Both of our boats ran very similarly. Both of our boats get easier to drive the higher the plate and the closer to neutral the trim is run.

What you could be seeing is the lip on the new boat vs the older boat. Less lip will let the nose fly. I have the older lip, but the 2 seater I ran this weekend had the new lip and didn't feel that different. If anything it was easier to drive. Mine is a little bit of a handful especially as I go over 100mph with certain props.

You will need to run higher than the XS. We were running the 2 seater 1.6 over and it could go a little more. On occasion, I can get 1.75 over, but I haven't really seen that height be faster. At that height, the nose starts to fall so I stay around 1.6.

Remember the R needs to be spun up to the limiter to really shine. It isn't like the XS running 5800 and laying down awesome numbers. Prop the R for 6300. I don't own a prop that doesn't hit the limiter. For you, that is probably a 25-28. It may even run the same prop as your 250. I tested the hell out of the 1.6 case this winter and it needed a much smaller wheel than I had for my 300xs 1.62. The stuff I ran on my 300xs 1.62 didn't put up bigger numbers on the 300R 1.6 because the 300R at 5800 didn't get the job done. The big number props were 2-3 mph slower than the 300XS 1.62 and more vs the 300R 1.75. Get that motor spinning.

 

[twsykes]

Bravo

Thanks for all the info. I am running the 28 bravo. So, your basically saying run 6300 with it close to 1.6 above neutral on the R? Just curious, what kinda numbers should I see or at least close?

 

[RiverRocket]

Yes, I would work for 1.6 above and at neutral it should come alive. How far beyond neutral will depend on your nose weight. Do you have lithiums in the nose? That answer will probably sway your speed question as well. I did a bunch of early testing with my troller batteries in the nose with the R and while acceleration improved top-end fell off by 1-2. In the end, I took the acceleration hit in favor of the top end and mid-range acceleration.

You may not hit the limiter with a 28. My 28 Promax could do it on my boat. Anything bigger couldn't. When we were testing it on the 2 seaer it seemed like we needed one pitch smaller.

The two-seaters are running 95-98 with a 32 and 1.75's. With the 1.6 case and the following promax props I ran 96 with a 28, 98 with a 30, and 100 with a 32.

 

[twsykes]

I do run Lithiums... Interesting info... Thanks so much for the info... How did you end up with weight distribution?

 

[RiverRocket]

I think we all like our boats setup differently. I like the sporty feeling and acceleration of having my weight rearward. I data logged the hell out of it and it was pretty clear that rear weight favored my driving style and preferences. Like I said, I will sacrifice a half-second of holeshot to have my boat pull hard from 30 up. I run one 24V 30lb lithium troller. I can put a crap ton in the back of the boat and still not come close to the AGM weight. As a result, I fish differently than most and I run all my weight in the back. I carry just a little tackle upfront. Only the typical plastics I'm using are in the nose and a little bit of switch out tackle. When I need to go to the bench, everything else is in the rear. That works for me and the way I fish. Especially since I have a Prosport and front storage sucks anyway.

 

[twsykes]

In theory..... wouldn't this be the process?
1 - Trim the boat to 6ish (if that is neutral)
2 - Then inch up the Jackplate as high as you can until no more speed is reached providing that the boat is balanced
3 - Then... if you dont reach the RPM of 6300 you would know u need a smaller diameter prop to get the 300R moving?

I guess what I am thinking is that neutral should be where the boat runs at all the time for speed then using the jackplate and balance would be used to get the best possible speed for a given prop and if the RPM's are not reach try a different prop.....

 

[RiverRocket]

pitch or diameter to get you in the range. It still comes down to feel and driver likes and dislikes. The Promax on my boat is unbeatable out of the hole. I haven't found a pitch for pitch prop that can beat it yet. But I don't mind a little flash to get it spun up. Some people do and won't run the prop at all. I still put 8 holes in the promax just to get it to spin up fast. And that is with a 1.75 300R.

 

[RiverRocket]

I have a Max 5 I'm testing now. It's a 31.5 15.25" prop. I'm going to do a fastbass marine video on it in the morning tomorrow comparing it to the 32P Promax and 32P Bravo. The Bravo is the same Bravo I shot this video with and the Promax is 0.5 pitches smaller. See how it ends up.

 

[twsykes]

Thats awesome! So, with the 300R I put a little level just above the sticker in front of the cooler and leveled the boat at neutral on plane carefully watching the bubble at speed to be sure I am balanced (I am assuming that is correct) Then I let her fly on a short lake where I knew I would run out of Room and I did... I ran 92 on the 2020 and had a good bit left then I decided to do the same with the 2012 boat with a 250 Proxs... both with the 28 props... On the 2012 I hit the limiter I think at around 6200 running 88.5 or 88.8. These Numbers were with about 32 lbs of tackle in the center front and 40lbs of tackle total in the front left and 25 lbs of shot just in front of the passenger seat...

 

[RiverRocket]

I put about 10 hours on the 31.5 Max 5 last week. I really like it on the R. Instead of going nose high at liftoff it lifts the entire boat out of the water and has minimal nose lift.

I data logged it and it ran identical to the 32 Promax, but had the potential for just a little more top speed.

 

[twsykes]

Sounds awesome! Top speed is better or close to the same? How much more stable is the boat... I would think it would be alot

 

[RiverRocket]

I actually like the Promax more. In my opinion its a very easy to drive prop. The max 5 takes a little more wheeling.

Top speed will go to the max 5.

On my boat, the 32 promax has run a best of 101. It takes an absolutely awesome day to do it. Day to day it is a 98/99 mph prop. Even on hot days it will run 98. I suspect that is because its far into the limiter and Merc is pulling power on top. So when it's hot it has the reserve power to push it.

In error I sent the Max 5 back without ever testing its max speed. I hit 100 with it, but never got it up to more. In back to back testing on a hot morning, they ran the same identical speed. But I suspect the day to day speed will be a little higher with the max 5.

 

[DragAlly02]

When you say 1.6 above Neutral are you meaning prop shaft above pad 1.6 inch's ? I have just bought a Xb21 Single console and have a 300R coming The prop will be either a 28 or 30 MAX 5 15 inch diameter. I will be running lithium pros for troller and lead for cranking. I have no idea where to start with set up. My main objective is good handling. Coming out of 20 footers the 21 is a different animal it seems. Also for laking and maybe pulling the kiddos on tube what would your recommend prop wise?

 

[RiverRocket]

Congrats on the 21. Yes. 1.5 to 1.6 should be the sweet spot. I would vote in favor of the 30 max 5 myself. a 28 will be too small. Assuming 1.75's.
The 21 will seem sluggish. I had a 21 2 seater up here a few weeks ago. I drove my boat and the 2 seater back to back and the 2 seater is tamer than my XB21 Prosport. So you will notice it switching from the 20's. The rear seating position gives the boat a different feel. We spent a lot of time on the setup. I'm a fan of setting the 2 seater up with the trolling batteries in the rear. If you are 36V I would do one myself. I have one 24V lithium and have yet to kill it on the water. I do have a stealth system. In fact, I have changed the battery 3 times this summer and I fish tournaments.
Forward mounted batteries kill acceleration past 75. I have done a lot of testing on this. The boat launches good, but after 75 you are just fighting the nose weight.

We had 2 36V batteries in the 2 seater and it was struggling to pull a big number. We pulled one 36V out of the 2 seater and moved the other one to the back and the boat handled like an Allison again. It was awesome. Plus, the boat hit 102.7. Here is the video I did.

The 30 will tube fine. I tube with a 32 Promax.

 

[DragAlly02]

Congrats on the 21. Yes. 1.5 to 1.6 should be the sweet spot. I would vote in favor of the 30 max 5 myself. a 28 will be too small. Assuming 1.75's.
The 21 will seem sluggish. I had a 21 2 seater up here a few weeks ago. I drove my boat and the 2 seater back to back and the 2 seater is tamer than my XB21 Prosport. So you will notice it switching from the 20's. The rear seating position gives the boat a different feel. We spent a lot of time on the setup. I'm a fan of setting the 2 seater up with the trolling batteries in the rear. If you are 36V I would do one myself. I have one 24V lithium and have yet to kill it on the water. I do have a stealth system. In fact, I have changed the battery 3 times this summer and I fish tournaments.
Forward mounted batteries kill acceleration past 75. I have done a lot of testing on this. The boat launches good, but after 75 you are just fighting the nose weight.

We had 2 36V batteries in the 2 seater and it was struggling to pull a big number. We pulled one 36V out of the 2 seater and moved the other one to the back and the boat handled like an Allison again. It was awesome. Plus, the boat hit 102.7. Here is the video I did.

The 30 will tube fine. I tube with a 32 Promax.

Yes forgot to mention 1:75

 

[RiverRocket]

Yep. 30 is as small as I would go. You will blow the doors off of a 28. Especially after the motor is broken in.

Here is a 28 promax

 

[DragAlly02]

Yes forgot to mention 1:75

Congrats on the 21. Yes. 1.5 to 1.6 should be the sweet spot. I would vote in favor of the 30 max 5 myself. a 28 will be too small. Assuming 1.75's.
The 21 will seem sluggish. I had a 21 2 seater up here a few weeks ago. I drove my boat and the 2 seater back to back and the 2 seater is tamer than my XB21 Prosport. So you will notice it switching from the 20's. The rear seating position gives the boat a different feel. We spent a lot of time on the setup. I'm a fan of setting the 2 seater up with the trolling batteries in the rear. If you are 36V I would do one myself. I have one 24V lithium and have yet to kill it on the water. I do have a stealth system. In fact, I have changed the battery 3 times this summer and I fish tournaments.
Forward mounted batteries kill acceleration past 75. I have done a lot of testing on this. The boat launches good, but after 75 you are just fighting the nose weight.

We had 2 36V batteries in the 2 seater and it was struggling to pull a big number. We pulled one 36V out of the 2 seater and moved the other one to the back and the boat handled like an Allison again. It was awesome. Plus, the boat hit 102.7. Here is the video I did.

The 30 will tube fine. I tube with a 32 Promax.

Awesome Video !! I have been watching them on Youtube. My Boat is an exact copy of what Woodys Xb21 single console color and all. 24 Volt troller So even with the lithiums your would run them in the rear ? What about Setback ?

 

[RiverRocket]

Love Woodys boat. When he got the 250 he handed over the keys and let me hammer on it. It didn't take much to show me I needed an R.

As you know, pro's and cons in everything. I would put the batteries in the back if it was my boat. I did extensive testing on mine and we did the same tests on the 2+2. When the 2 seater was here, like above, we did a very quick test and it proved to be the same. You simply cannot beat it with batteries in the back. Even if your boat goes more nose high as a result of rear batteries. The second it comes down it will be out pulling batteries in the nose. In less than 1000' the batteries in the back of the boat configuration will pass the nose battery boat. On top of that, it will be 1-2 mph faster on the top.

Again, the down sided is the boat will put the nose up higher in the air. However, the Max 5 will counter that. The Max 5 actually takes the ass of the boat and lifts it out of the water and pushes the boat forward vs. digging in and causing the boat to drive over the wall of water. I have a bunch of test videos on this, I just haven't finished editing them yet. The Max 5 is a great wheel. It does have a few downsides. Mostly on top. It is a wheel that requires a little more driver input. I believe it is because of the lift it has. I have not found it to be a big top end wheel. It is very respectable on top (as it should be for its price), but I have tested faster props. I honestly wasn't a huge fan of it in initial testing. I always felt like the price was too high for the performance. I came around when Tim had me test one for a few weeks. I would honestly own one if I didn't fish shallow all the time. It is simply too expensive to worry about all the time. The ability to lift the boat out of the water with a heavy load is what got me and the fact that it would run 100.