Water flow question
- Thread starter delgrad59
- Start date
mtolley
Active Member
you have a 2 piece plate. as stated already, if your running it under 7500rpm, keep the cooling system stock. ive seen it done both ways and have also seen steel sleeve motors sieze due to lack of heat in the motor.
patches
Well-Known Member
I agree with Tolley.
Dont GPI build high RPM steel sleeve motors......I know there was some contraversy about him but, isnt he a guy who builds performance steel sleeve motors? Is there a possiblity that this motor is a high RPM motor built by GPI and has those cooling mods for that reason? I dont know him or anything other than what I have read here so, dont shoot me just say'in.
Hopefully this weekend I get it cleaned out and get proper waterflow then I guess the next step is to see if I should convert it back to stock or leave it as is. What temp should a motor like this be running. I will typically run the motor 3 - 4k rpm with some bursts here and there. But realistically 3 - 4k rpm 95% of the time. Dont want to blow it up as I just got it.
patches
Well-Known Member
Hold on to your wallet with Randy Pierson. He has quite a reputation for being full of chit
He has been helpful and responsive with me so far. Dont know anyone elses background with him so dont want to get into a he said/she said:argue. And obviously I cant talk him up or down. At the end of the day if the motor runs/lasts I will be satisified :surprised and have nothing bad to say. If it blows up I will be pi$$ed
but that would be everyones opinion.
Delgrad59: Messege me and we can chat about when we're coming and meeting up.
On the cold seizing>> It happens right in that nice cruise range where everyone likes to sit. There are several factors involved. 1) the block and steel sleeves are COLD, this is made worse by the water drain holes actually shoving cold water straight at the 2 bottom cylinders. So the sleeves stay shrunk. 2) the piston starts to heat up, and the 3500 to 4000 range is where the curve starts to lean a bit on most motors. By 4500 its leaner yet but generally heat is at least building. Piston expands, sleeve doesn't at the lower speeds. 3) compounding this is the fact that the water is not being controlled for temperature.
Solution>> Plug the water drains and move them over. Install water dams to slow the flow and even the temps out. We do this on ALL steel sleeve motors. Use the correct cooling setup for your rpm usage and the motors rpm capability. Also having the ECU curved to improve fuel flow at cruising rpm helps. Check your overheat horn and make sure its working. Watch your temp or psi gauge regularly.
Randy has built some great motors over the years and he's also had some people that didn't like him too well because of some reportedly slipshod building. Don't always believe what you read unless its first hand. Same can be said of many an engine builder one way or another.
I would guess making 220-225hp or so from what it sounds like. The ModVP was the precursor to the 225ProMax, but the 200 would have the smaller 5 petal front unless he changed it, which I doubt. 34cc heads would add 6hp or so. There really is not much difference in porting between the 200 and 225. The diff is the rod slot width, front 1/2, and exhaust windows. That would be around a 6500 rpm motor, maybe 7000 depending on a lot of things. Hard to tell what you have ,unless you pull the heads and the powerhead to see if he opened the ex. windows, did the chest, ported, etc. Check compression and see where thats at. Always run Premium if they're 34's. Give Randy a call and maybe you can find out some more about it at least. He races karts now, he's in MN.
I'll bring you some props to try. That hull needs prop with some blade area. Should feel like an elevator at around 60+mph. Should be able to run 90+ or so if its set up correctly.
On the cold seizing>> It happens right in that nice cruise range where everyone likes to sit. There are several factors involved. 1) the block and steel sleeves are COLD, this is made worse by the water drain holes actually shoving cold water straight at the 2 bottom cylinders. So the sleeves stay shrunk. 2) the piston starts to heat up, and the 3500 to 4000 range is where the curve starts to lean a bit on most motors. By 4500 its leaner yet but generally heat is at least building. Piston expands, sleeve doesn't at the lower speeds. 3) compounding this is the fact that the water is not being controlled for temperature.
Solution>> Plug the water drains and move them over. Install water dams to slow the flow and even the temps out. We do this on ALL steel sleeve motors. Use the correct cooling setup for your rpm usage and the motors rpm capability. Also having the ECU curved to improve fuel flow at cruising rpm helps. Check your overheat horn and make sure its working. Watch your temp or psi gauge regularly.
Randy has built some great motors over the years and he's also had some people that didn't like him too well because of some reportedly slipshod building. Don't always believe what you read unless its first hand. Same can be said of many an engine builder one way or another.
I would guess making 220-225hp or so from what it sounds like. The ModVP was the precursor to the 225ProMax, but the 200 would have the smaller 5 petal front unless he changed it, which I doubt. 34cc heads would add 6hp or so. There really is not much difference in porting between the 200 and 225. The diff is the rod slot width, front 1/2, and exhaust windows. That would be around a 6500 rpm motor, maybe 7000 depending on a lot of things. Hard to tell what you have ,unless you pull the heads and the powerhead to see if he opened the ex. windows, did the chest, ported, etc. Check compression and see where thats at. Always run Premium if they're 34's. Give Randy a call and maybe you can find out some more about it at least. He races karts now, he's in MN.
I'll bring you some props to try. That hull needs prop with some blade area. Should feel like an elevator at around 60+mph. Should be able to run 90+ or so if its set up correctly.
Steve,
Sent you an email. I asked Randy to provide any more details. I think he rebuilt it several years ago so getting a definite on the motor will probably be difficult. The last two guys that have owned it did a good job keeping it up. Motor is real clean on the outside at least. I am gonna run some compression numbers soon.
Sent you an email. I asked Randy to provide any more details. I think he rebuilt it several years ago so getting a definite on the motor will probably be difficult. The last two guys that have owned it did a good job keeping it up. Motor is real clean on the outside at least. I am gonna run some compression numbers soon.
Ok. So the verdict is in. Clogged tube. Look what I found. :shock: YIKES!!!! Anyway next level question. Decided to clean out the second thermostat housing and noticed that the gaskets between the port and starboard side were not put in the same. Should the nipple go into the head or out to the t-stat housing?
Attachments
Couple things>>> The hole is too big if you were to run a non poppet higher rpm motor, which I don't think you have. Factory is around 1/8" and we run 3/16". Its mainly there to allow air pockets to escape the top of the heads. You will dump too much water before it goes thru the head with that large of a hole. If you get desperate and can't find the correct sized fender washer, take a quarter and drill a 3/16" hole in it. The rubber washer gaskets are the same as the ones for the thermostats.
Looks like some nasty stuff was in there. Yikes!
Now thats if you were running a NON Poppet motor and restrictors. You need stats for the steel sleeved motor.
The pointy part of the stat that has the little needle pin in it goes towards the hose. The majority of the stat goes into the head. The water heats the substance inside and melts it at a specific temp. The spring pressure overcomes the substance that is now liquid and the stat opens. You should probably run 130 degree stats in your climate (FL) and a full new style poppet. Stock is 140degree. Pro Marine has them over by you south of Clearwater. Run a 3/8 barb and hose instead of the stock 1/4 or 5/16 off the poppet cover.
Looks like some nasty stuff was in there. Yikes!
Now thats if you were running a NON Poppet motor and restrictors. You need stats for the steel sleeved motor.
The pointy part of the stat that has the little needle pin in it goes towards the hose. The majority of the stat goes into the head. The water heats the substance inside and melts it at a specific temp. The spring pressure overcomes the substance that is now liquid and the stat opens. You should probably run 130 degree stats in your climate (FL) and a full new style poppet. Stock is 140degree. Pro Marine has them over by you south of Clearwater. Run a 3/8 barb and hose instead of the stock 1/4 or 5/16 off the poppet cover.
Thanks for the information.seems like I will have to make several mods to the cooling system. Can probably change to thermostats but the poppet is something I have never dealt with before. Based on this I would assume the motor should be running around 130 degrees? Also would I have to change the configuration of the hoses? Took the boat out today and it ran a consistent 110 degrees and when I would get on it for a period of time it would heat up another 5 - 10 degrees. Only hit it a few times and it reved up to 6300+ pretty quickly. Probably still had more trim to go. Still runs very flat and almost seems negative.
Yes, 130 would be good.
The poppet is easy to replace. be sure there is a rubber and plastic seal in the block itself before installing the poppet.
Hoses stay in the same spots.
What prop are you running? The GS likes a Hoss or something with blade area. A Trophy might be a good one for you to start with. Hoss props tend to act like they are smaller pitch than listed. So a 30P may tend to run more like a 28 on the bottom and midrange.
Also the motor will probably spin as high as you want it depending on the pitch of prop, but it should make max HP around 6500 to 6800 and possibly 7000. I'd look for a 26P for play and a maybe a 30P Hoss or a 28P big ear Merc chopper for topend cruising. I have a Spinelli that worked real well on that hull as well. I'll bring some when i come down.
1.87 gear>>>
22P , the mph will be approx 1/100 of the rpm . 6000= 60mph for instance
24P , 10% higher 6000=66mph 7000=77
26P , 20% higher 6000=72mph 7000=84
28P 30% higher 6000=78mph 7000=91
30P 40% higher 6000 =84mph 7000=98
and so on. not exact but rule of thumb with avg slip of approx 10%
The poppet is easy to replace. be sure there is a rubber and plastic seal in the block itself before installing the poppet.
Hoses stay in the same spots.
What prop are you running? The GS likes a Hoss or something with blade area. A Trophy might be a good one for you to start with. Hoss props tend to act like they are smaller pitch than listed. So a 30P may tend to run more like a 28 on the bottom and midrange.
Also the motor will probably spin as high as you want it depending on the pitch of prop, but it should make max HP around 6500 to 6800 and possibly 7000. I'd look for a 26P for play and a maybe a 30P Hoss or a 28P big ear Merc chopper for topend cruising. I have a Spinelli that worked real well on that hull as well. I'll bring some when i come down.
1.87 gear>>>
22P , the mph will be approx 1/100 of the rpm . 6000= 60mph for instance
24P , 10% higher 6000=66mph 7000=77
26P , 20% higher 6000=72mph 7000=84
28P 30% higher 6000=78mph 7000=91
30P 40% higher 6000 =84mph 7000=98
and so on. not exact but rule of thumb with avg slip of approx 10%
Well the. Cooling system is now the least of my worries. Went to pick up the boat this morning and found oil all over the floor under the gear case. It also does not spin freely in neutral. Ugh at the mechanic to check out the case
mtolley
Active Member
whats wrong with the gearcase.
Got a couple of photos but the case is still at the mechanic so I have to wait until after new years to get the full story. Looks like the lower had been damaged previously and was welded back together. The crack extends from the end through the carrier threads and since it is not solid it most likely caused the carrier to spin out. I am starting to get bits and pieces of information on the history of the boat/motor etc so hopefully I will confirm the things that I have been told once I get the case back.
Attachments
I am going to go get a new to me "used case" but is it possible to pin this one as a spare? I have no idea why someone would weld it then not take the effort to pin it. If the case was shot why would they only go half way unless the crack will only be amplified with pins.