Wardrobe..?

[aeneas]

I have just completed my hunting exam (in Sweden this means reading a lot of biology, hunting methods, the law, weapons and on top lots of shooting (clay shooting, target practice and moving targets with both shotgun and rifle.

I have decided to buy a Beretta 686 SP shotgun. I tested it and I felt very comfortable with it.

But for the rifle I wanted to get some advice... I will hunt for moose, elk, roe deer, fallow deer, wild boar, fox, Canada goose, greylag goose etc and need a rifle for this. Originally I thought cal .308 win would fit the bill perhaps in a Sako 85 Synthetic Stainless but now after reading up on the wild boar I am thinking of maybe a larger caliber (9,3x62) for that and moose and a smaller (6,5x55 Swedish Mauser) for the smaller game..? I have found a rifle that can do both by switching barrels...
I tested a Mauser M03 Africa in cal .300 Weatherby Magnum and found it to be a beautiful, heavy/nice shooting rifle... As I am going to eat what I shoot that caliber was a bit powerful. It was my shooting instructor's rifle and when I was done he switched barrels to a cal .458 Lott and shot at the moose...

I also looked at the Sauer 202 but read that I need to shoot the gun to zero after switching barrels. The Blaser R8 is another rifle but am not sure about the straight bolt action...

So, will cal .308 win do it? What other rifles should I look at? I am going shopping for weapons in about two weeks... Any advice from hunters on here?!

 

[Jon]

A 308 is a good all around round, and very accurate at long distances. I like bolt action rifles as they do not jam as easily as a semi-auto, but they're clunky until you get them broken in and use to the action. I carried an M240 in the AF which fires 7.62mm at 8 rounds a second. They're primarily good for suppressive fire, but could probably saw a moose in half. You have options.

The easiest thing is just to move here though. I just walk out the door with my 357 revolver and shoot whatever game is walking by, then go back inside to the air conditioning. No need to sweat.

 

[aeneas]

No semi-auto in my locker!
The .308 win is very versatile but only up to about 180gr bullets but that should be enough with the right bullet (expanding) and the right shooter. It's the wild boar that concerns me. They are "hard"... and if you don't drop them properly they can get back at you. Need stopping power!

 

[Jon]

I'm not out to hunt to be sportsman like... I think, to be fair, that would require giving the boar a weapon as well. I do get what you're saying about the 308. It may be difficult to find an all-in-one for what you are wanting to hunt. I like the Mauser you pointed out for versatility, and I think something like the 458 may limit you. I'm not sure of the law there, but you could start with the Mauser and then move on to more purpose built rifles.

It's kind of like fishing... I've caught 40lb catfish on 4lb test line before, but it isn't easy.

 

[RedAllison]

Aeneas I completely and honestly CAN recommend the 308 for ALL the game you mentioned, it's the bullet selection that you just need to tailor to the game that week! Are you really hunting geese and other small game with this rifle? I ask just because that's not common practice here in the U.S. and in fact is illegal in most cases. (We CAN hunt snow geese with rifles, after the regular waterfowl seasons are closed, it's simply a management means encouraged to lesson the flocks of snows as they are so overpopulated now they are damaging fragile breeding grounds in the tundras in north Canada.) But assuming you are hunting ALL the game listed then you simply would want lightweight, non-expanding bullets (FMJ military style, are those legal in your country?) for the small game to prevent expansion and damage. As for the big game, the boars can be tough but that's really more a matter of shotplacement than physical stamina. The moose can take just as much lead, in certain circumstances... again it's all about where you put that first bullet!

I'd recommend you only bother with one bullet for ALL the big game listed, and that is the 165-180grn Barnes Triple Shock or any of the various mfgrs copies now available. Hornady makes the GMX, Federal the "Trophy Copper", Winchester the "Power Core", Nosler the "E-tip" etc... These bullets WILL fully penetrate the largest game on your list but will still produce satisfactory results on the smaller deer you are after. You'll really gain nothing dropping down to the 130-150 weights in these bullets (when used on the bigger game you mentioned!), what you gain in a couple of inches of trajectory at 400yds is negated by the penetration on the largest and toughest critters you listed. There are certainly heavier bullets available for the 308 but the little case capacity is really hampered and velocity and range is severely hampered when you start looking at 200+grn loads in the 308.

Sako used to offer several of their guns in the 338Federal. The 338Fed WILL be my next rifle! It's the "cats pjs" and combines the BEST that the 308 offers with the larger bullets and on game performance closer to that of the 338WinMag. It takes heaavier bullets (200+ grn) performance in the 308 case to the next level above that of the 308 itself! But ammo choices for that cartridge is severely limited, I would imagine doubly so on your side of the pond! A 35Whelen is ANOTHER GREAT CLASSIC! But again, I doubt you'll find alot of ammo for it over there, especially considering how popular the 9.3 is over there.

The Blasers are VERY nice gun and much more popular over there than they are over here, but unless you just want to spend that kind of money, I think you can pick one bolt gun and get all of it done without the expense and headache of multiple barrels, scopes and calibers to keep up with. Just this past season my best huntin buds wife called me and wanted me to get him a new rifle for their 20th anniv. I already knew what he needed! She told me to "get something nice, worth 20years" and since it was HIS $$$ I set him UP in tall cotton! I quickly ordered a 3x9x36 Swarovski to be put atop a Sako Finnlight 7mm-08 (and all held together via Sako Opti-lok rings/bases). I put it all together, bore sighted it and then Jeff (Cashew Kid) Brazil and I sighted it in one morning before heading to Neal (GotMyAlly) Edwards' wedding later that afternoon. My buds wife gave it to him later that night and the very next day he busted two bucks with it at my farm. He wanted to act mad about my burning his $$$ like paper but after carrying the gun and whackin the bucks with it, he now LOVES that thing. It's perhaps THE ultimate lightweight hunting rig that'll do 95% of anything that needs to be done in the big game woods! (In fact I'd recommend the 7-08 with 150-160grns over the 308 but that's your choice! I just LOVE that caliber, my youngest son has one, the bud I mentioned has his and we even got his son one lastyear. It's just a sweetheart.)

As for the 458Lott, man that's alot of power for "everything". Sure it's great on boars and will HAMMER a moose in the ground like a tentstake but man why carry that much umph for EVERYTHING? I have a 45-70 Marlin Guidegun and I shoot the 300grn Barnes from Buffalo Bore in it. That stuff is SUPERHEAVY pressure and borders on the 458 threshold, but dear God is it ever powerful! You CAN download the 458 to standard 45-70 pressures for the smaller stuff but you are severely limited by the rainbow like trajectories of those weaker loads. You crank that pressure up to flatten the trajectory and the recoil begins to eat scopes, loosen mounts and rattle the fillings in your teeth...

You mentioned the 9.3 and I understand it is VERY popular on yourside of the globe! From what I've seen it will essentially do anything a 375 H&H (perhaps THE greatest "1 caliber for 1 world" in history?) will do and ammo sounds like it's really easy to get over there for you as well. But again, that's just ALOT of firepower to tote, feed and throw at geese and roe deer! The choice is yours...

 

[fastallison21]

308 all the way

 

[gmorgan]

A Blauser is a fine rifle, and you can change the barrels out quickly with no change in point of aim because you have a scope for each barrel. The scope stays on the barrel, not the action.

 

[aeneas]

Red, thank you for your very informative advice.
Regarding the .308 win I would use it for all the game mentioned. I see that there is a wide variety of bullets in the .308 Win (http://www.norma.cc/us/Products/Hunting/?SelectedCaliber=.308+Winchester&SelectedBulletType=all&SelectedBrand=all&SelectedWildType=all&productBtn=Search). All these bullets are legal and even by appointment to the Swedish Royal court.
In Sweden it is practice to use FMJ bullets ('jaktmatch' in Swedish) for practice and target shooting, also these bullets are used for tree top bird hunting. So for long distance goose hunting, well... Like you we have problems with Canada goose and Greylag goose populations exploding and becoming problems. I am managing a golf course and we have problems with goose droppings. No fun stepping in a sh*t load when playing.

It would be very practical for me to buy just a .308 win along side the shotgun. Shots here on the property are seldom longer than 100m so I guess a good .308 win packs a decent punch. I like quality stuff and that is why I am thinking about Mauser or Sako. I am really interested in a Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic and since I may get away with just the one calibre it is now the strongest candidate. I guess the biggest difference between a 85 SS and a 85 Finnlight is the fluted barrel and the weight..? I think I shoot better with a slightly heavier rifle so...
The Sako 85 is supposed to shoot well and has a silky smooth bolt action. On your recomendation I looked at the .338 Fed but only found .338 WM, .338 Blaser Magnum and .338 Norma Magnum... I am not sure if any of them resembles the .338 Federal?
As you pointed out the .338 sems to be in between the .308 Win and the 9,3x62. Over on this side of the pond traditionally military calibers are very popular for hunting: the 6,5x55 Swedish Mauser, the 30-06 Springfield and the .308 Winchester. The 9,3 is not a military caliber but yet very popular because it packs a proper punch. It is popular for moose hunting but is growing even more popular as the problem with the wild boar spread.

With my bolt action rifle I will also like you go for a top class scope from Swarovski or Zeiss... I have not read up on what is what quite yet.

The .458 Lott was just for fun. My instructor uses it when he is hunting the big five in Africa. But as you stated - it packs one h*ll of a punch!

Oh, I forgot - I am buying back my grandfather's old monogramed side by side for nostalgia.

 

[aeneas]

308 all the way

Yes, I will go for a .308 Win

A Blauser is a fine rifle, and you can change the barrels out quickly with no change in point of aim because you have a scope for each barrel. The scope stays on the barrel, not the action.

Aha, I read on a hunting forum here that you needed to shoot to zero after every barrel change... That's why the Mauser came up because that has the system that you refer to. I will have a look at the Blaser R93 Professional at the gun store.

 

[aeneas]

I'm not out to hunt to be sportsman like... I think, to be fair, that would require giving the boar a weapon as well. I do get what you're saying about the 308. It may be difficult to find an all-in-one for what you are wanting to hunt. I like the Mauser you pointed out for versatility, and I think something like the 458 may limit you. I'm not sure of the law there, but you could start with the Mauser and then move on to more purpose built rifles.

It's kind of like fishing... I've caught 40lb catfish on 4lb test line before, but it isn't easy.

Yes, I think the Mauser is a beautiful weapon and it also has a name that means quality. I tested my shooting instructor's Mauser M03 Africa and it was a beautiful weapon to shoot with. 100% quality in every detail. Like you said - a precision instrument.

As for custom built rifles - we'll have to see how much I will hunt. We have about 31 000 acres so there are possibilities...

 

[RedAllison]

Aeneas the 338Federal has been around in wildcat form for many years but was only "formally" commercialized a decade or so ago when Federal stamped their name on it & started making ammo for it. (Think of it as a short 8mm Mauser) It is simply a 308 necked up to 338. Combines the heavier bullet performance of the 358Win with the zing & reach of the 308, kinda the "best of both worlds". But I'd really only recommend it for hand loaders.

The main difference between the Sako 85 SS & the Finnlight is the weight via stock & skeletonized chassis, otherwise they are mechanically the same. IMHO the Sako is THE greatest "over the counter" rifle available in the "under $5k" price range. I've sold thousands of rifles over 2 decades & NOTHING from the American makers ever rivaled the Sakos (talkin box stock, OTC rifles). The closest I reckon I've come across to the Sakos were the Sauer 202s! If you do want weight then you're right, DONT consider the Finnlight as its sub-6# weight IS light! (Sakos new "Carbonlight" is even a # lighter at just under 5#!)

 

[aeneas]

Red, what do you think about the Mauser M03?

 

[RedAllison]

Sorry Aeneas, overlooked this post. I'm not familiar with the newer Mausers but I've heard nothing but praise for them. Sako, Sauer, Mauser... take your pick, they are all GREAT rifles & won't let you down!

 

[aeneas]

Red,
Thank you for all your input! I have today bought a Sako 85 Black Bear .308 win with a Swarovski Z4I 3-12x50 scope and a Triton 42 suppressor.