Nonratcheting gear case

gmorgan

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
362
Points
43
I have a nearly new 200HP gear case with JC nose cone, and I understand that the nonratcheting clutch dog can present a problem in handling with a boat. My boat is an XB2003 with a Super Magnum 225. This time of year loaded to fish with one person aboard it runs in the upper 90's. I'm just curious what types of problems anyone here on Allison Owners has had with a nonratcheting gear case. Please share in detail your experiences like what caused the problem, how the boat acted, how fast you were running, etc. TIA
 

BGohr

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
596
Points
18
Who told you there was a problem and what was it? I run nothing but non-ratcheting gearcases and there's good reasons for running one.
 

gmorgan

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
362
Points
43
Bill, I have seen posts on this website and others where people have commented that the nonratcheting is not as safe as the ratcheting gear case, something about they slow down much quicker and that if you were to experience a catastrophic engine failure/lock-up that the prop would act like a rudder and create havoc with steering. I know there are some people who change the nonratcheting to ratcheting because they feel it is safer. I personally don't know what to think, and thus my post asking you and others to chime in with their experiences.

Would you please expound on the "good" reasons for running a nonratcheting gear case? I really would like to know your thoughts on the subject. I'll probably leave mine like it is, but I've been thinking about going to a GeigerTech carrier and thought if I needed to go away from the nonratcheting when I change the carrier would be a good time to do it.
 

BGohr

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
596
Points
18
I have a nearly new 200HP gear case with JC nose cone, and I understand that the nonratcheting clutch dog can present a problem in handling with a boat. My boat is an XB2003 with a Super Magnum 225. This time of year loaded to fish with one person aboard it runs in the upper 90's. I'm just curious what types of problems anyone here on Allison Owners has had with a nonratcheting gear case. Please share in detail your experiences like what caused the problem, how the boat acted, how fast you were running, etc. TIA
Well it says in your post above you were told it can present a problem in handling with my boat. Ratcheting or non-ratcheting will have no affect on handling.

As you stated you've heard or read that it could cause a problem if your motor fails, well that my be true on an ultra light boat hung out to dry and the motor has to "lock up solid" to make your life interesting. Generally they slow down and stick.

Keep in mind some of the lightest ultra light raceboats with small gearcases don't run shifting gearcases, and commonly they just weld the clutchdog in place or use some other means to lock it in forward, these gearcases do not ratchet, and those guys stick alot of motors.

Further, a non-ratcheting gearcase is much safer to have on a fast boat, especially in rough water. It gives you more control with the throttle. Like you said it stops faster. As well, you can control the nose of the boat with the throttle. If the boat gets silly on you, you can pedal it a little and the drag settles the boat right down, it's very helpful in high speed turns.

I tested both, back to back, I have never ran anything but Non-ratcheting cases since.
 

gmorgan

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
362
Points
43
Thanks much, Bill, for the great info. Now I won't feel quite so knotted up when running my 200 case.
 

wasmeneh

Active Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
231
Points
18
Location
Wilmington, NC
Funny I was always told the opposite, my Merc Hi-Po dealer always said not to have a non -ratcheting on my XB 2003.
 

gmorgan

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
362
Points
43
Wasmeneh, I guess possibly you're in the same boat with me in that I've heard people say don't run an NR (nonratcheting), but I don't know if they are talking from experience, theory or repeating something they simply heard. Hopefully someone will chime in and say I've broken six motors at high RPM and never had a problem or I've broken several motors and I'll never run an NR again due to thus and such.
 

gmorgan

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
362
Points
43
Come on folks, help us out here with more info like Bill Gohr just gave us. So far it is 1 to none in favor of NR gearcases as far as personal experience goes.
 

bec

Active Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
244
Points
16
Location
Lake Martin Alabama
The post you mention or have been reading was in reference to installing 3liter engines on an allison .all the added weight on the transom posed a threat at high speeds runs and being able to correct errors with the right kind of gear case..
 

wasmeneh

Active Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
231
Points
18
Location
Wilmington, NC
I wasn't mentioning any posts, my dealer says it's not a good idea. He put my CLE on my 200 Merc for that reason as opposed to a newer non-ratcheting I had on the 200. Ask the question on Scream and Fly Allison section he'll probably reply.
 

bec

Active Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
244
Points
16
Location
Lake Martin Alabama
Bill, I have seen posts on this website and others where people have commented that the nonratcheting is not as safe as the ratcheting gear case, something about they slow down much quicker and that if you were to experience a catastrophic engine failure/lock-up that the prop would act like a rudder and create havoc with steering. I know there are some people who change the nonratcheting to ratcheting because they feel it is safer. I personally don't know what to think, and thus my post asking you and others to chime in with their experiences.

Would you please expound on the "good" reasons for running a nonratcheting gear case? I really would like to know your thoughts on the subject. I'll probably leave mine like it is, but I've been thinking about going to a GeigerTech carrier and thought if I needed to go away from the nonratcheting when I change the carrier would be a good time to do it.
sorry I misread.
 

BGohr

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
596
Points
18
First of all, all 3 liters are non ratcheting, so I guess you guys are saying that you can never run one.

Second, again, the ONLY time it is an issue or this conversation is relevant, is when your motor locks up solid.

Third, I would like the only responses to this thread to be from people who have personally, actually, tested them back to back, on the same boat, same day and have a fact based opinion.

We all know we can't live by the stories on S&F.................

And what really happens is, if, everything is just right and your motor locks up, and the prop is locked, all that happens is you get what we call the rooster tail of death. It's a weird looking cork screwed tail. The boat leans to the right a little. If you have hydraulic steering nothing will happen at the wheel, if you have cable, it will pull to the left hard for a second.

Again, if you're going to have to change your gearcase because you're afraid your motor is going to lock up, get a different engine builder/tuner, not a different lower.
 

bec

Active Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
244
Points
16
Location
Lake Martin Alabama
Sorry I did not mean to word it that way.was not coming off as a know it all just trying to tell him what I have read on this forum and scream and fly.he was asking for opinions and I was just trying to tell what I have read on the website.
 

BGohr

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
596
Points
18
No I get it, but when you start talking about a subject, and all the responses on S&F start with, i heard, i read, someone said...... Nobody in the topic has ever done it, they just talk, and that is why S&F is rated so low in the real world technically. It's a great place to sell stuff I'm told. Back in the day it had some credibility when all the old guys were on there.
 

gmorgan

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
362
Points
43
Still hoping to hear from those who have experience with the NR gearcase along with Bill Gohr.
 

Jon

Active Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
828
Points
43
Location
Kingston, TN
I have never used a non-ratcheting gear case on a hi performance motor. In theory, if you let out quickly at high speed, it would nose over quickly. On a ratcheting case the prop will slip more and should ease down more gently. The thing is, when you let out at 100 and there is X water pressure against the prop, it'll turn the motor and it isn't like the thing locks up and throws on the brakes. While it is probably somewhat different than a ratcheting case, I would like to see a back to back test.
 

Dave Hensley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
2,075
Points
63
Location
Maryville, Tn.
I like the "weird rooster tail of death" phrase. Sounds like something Louie would get off on!! If he was standing on a milk crate in order to see it.
 

whipper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
5,404
Points
63
Location
prince george b.c. canada
ive heard guys say they have no problems with the Non Ratcheting cases even on 3.0 lters. I've had problem with my ratcheting gear case coming off of speed many times though. The problem with Ratcheting is if your ratcheting and the nose digs in you have no control and must hit it to get a positive set on the prop to correct this. also for slowing down fast you can have an excessive glide factor. Ive had to crank the wheel lots comming in to hot and the case ratcheting for ever not slowing me down. i do a hockey stop in extreem cases and trow up a wall of watter and come to a dead stop instantly in those cases. I almost barrel rolled last time i did that so i avoid doing it for fun now.:D

i can see pros and cons of both,:rolleyes:
 

BGohr

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
596
Points
18
Yes Whipper that is correct, a definite positive for non- ratcheting gearcases
 

BGohr

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
596
Points
18
Dave, that saying comes from Champboat racing, when someone is slowing down from 110 plus on a tunnelboat you will see the weird cork screw rooster tail.
 
Top